Ok am I alone or does anyone else REALLY hate 987 front end?
05-06-2005, 11:40 AM
#1
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Thread Starter
Ok am I alone or does anyone else REALLY hate 987 front end?
DISCLAIMER:
ok this is not a performance chat.
Purely a creative/artisitc/aesthetic debate from a lifelong art/design student who is a fan stylistically of the Ferrari F355, Jag e-type and the new Ford GT.
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When I first saw the 987 I was instantly let down. My initial impression was "it looks Japanese now" The trademark amoeba headlights are a tough act to follow and rather than coming up with something new Porsche went retro. Not that I have anything against the ages old round P-car lights, but the past is past.
I was at the dealer yesterday and a older man was picking up a new 997. As the salesman was putting on the front plate I just looked at it thinking"Man something is not right the back end just doesn't fit with the front end". I almost started thinking "New VW Beetle on steroids".
As I sat in the new 987 I thought "different but not better". For a second I thought am I sitting in the Lexus or world class sports car? Of course the performance reminds me its the latter but the visual experience has me confused. Or perhaps I'm of the school that thinks a pure sports car should look a certain way on the inside. This to me is not that way.
The new GT3 front end I feel is an even bigger disaster and I find it interestining that on the Cayman spy picks they have faked amoeba looking lights via some duck tape or something.
No doubt there must have been some heated debates about going backwards with the "new design direction". But to be honest I think the new 997 and 987 will make our 996 and 986 cars classics.
Well those are my drop in the bucket opinions. I'm just wondering if anyone else was let down in a big way as well.
ok this is not a performance chat.
Purely a creative/artisitc/aesthetic debate from a lifelong art/design student who is a fan stylistically of the Ferrari F355, Jag e-type and the new Ford GT.
(please support www.cardesignnews.com)
When I first saw the 987 I was instantly let down. My initial impression was "it looks Japanese now" The trademark amoeba headlights are a tough act to follow and rather than coming up with something new Porsche went retro. Not that I have anything against the ages old round P-car lights, but the past is past.
I was at the dealer yesterday and a older man was picking up a new 997. As the salesman was putting on the front plate I just looked at it thinking"Man something is not right the back end just doesn't fit with the front end". I almost started thinking "New VW Beetle on steroids".
As I sat in the new 987 I thought "different but not better". For a second I thought am I sitting in the Lexus or world class sports car? Of course the performance reminds me its the latter but the visual experience has me confused. Or perhaps I'm of the school that thinks a pure sports car should look a certain way on the inside. This to me is not that way.
The new GT3 front end I feel is an even bigger disaster and I find it interestining that on the Cayman spy picks they have faked amoeba looking lights via some duck tape or something.
No doubt there must have been some heated debates about going backwards with the "new design direction". But to be honest I think the new 997 and 987 will make our 996 and 986 cars classics.
Well those are my drop in the bucket opinions. I'm just wondering if anyone else was let down in a big way as well.
05-06-2005, 02:16 PM
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Yes, the styling of the new 997 is a bit retro (993) in the fact that they went back to round heaadlights. Apart from this I feel the new design is very modern. The basic shape of the 911 will always be the same, and has been for over 40 years. This is what makes the 911 a 911. The fact that the original porsches came from vw beetles may be why you feel there is a similarity. I really cant make that connection other than having round headlights on the front corners of the car.
The 987 design is a merge of 986, 997, and carrera GT. The headlights are very reminiscent of the carrera GT shape. The little way the tail lights push backward and the hood opening line definitely provokes the GT. The one element that looks japanese in any way is the side intakes. They are similar in design to the toyota MR2. The headlights seen on cayman test mules are meant to disguise the lines of the car and headlights. I seriously doubt they are thinking of giving it the fried egg headlights (not that I thought they were bad).
The interior is much nicer than before. I dont see what is wrong with that. It was always one of the biggest complaints with the 996/86. Porsches are meant to be refined in every possible aspect. This includes comfort. It is by no means lexus plush because that level of isolation would detract from the interaction of driver and vehicle. However, the new porsches are very comfortable but have thunderous performance as well. If you have driven these cars you know the level of improvement over the last models in terms of perfomance. If a sports car for you is supposed to be barren inside you have to look no further than the elise. I feel the elise has a much more japanese look than the 987 and I love that styling also. And dont think japanese is bad. For me japanese styling has for the most part just been a little more flamboyant rather than elegant.
I feel porsche design has always been very sophisticated with elegant lines that are proving to be timeless (ie 40 years of 911). They may not be as flashy or radical as other makes but the designs do not grow old. To me the early 986 design is still beautiful, same goes for 993 and older 911s. They still look really good. Its hard to say that about too many cars. most designs really wtart to show their age after a few years. This timelessness of design coupled with the high level of engineering wrapped in a package which fuses man and machine like no other brand of car I have driven is why I believe porsche has built up such a reputation and following.
The 987 design is a merge of 986, 997, and carrera GT. The headlights are very reminiscent of the carrera GT shape. The little way the tail lights push backward and the hood opening line definitely provokes the GT. The one element that looks japanese in any way is the side intakes. They are similar in design to the toyota MR2. The headlights seen on cayman test mules are meant to disguise the lines of the car and headlights. I seriously doubt they are thinking of giving it the fried egg headlights (not that I thought they were bad).
The interior is much nicer than before. I dont see what is wrong with that. It was always one of the biggest complaints with the 996/86. Porsches are meant to be refined in every possible aspect. This includes comfort. It is by no means lexus plush because that level of isolation would detract from the interaction of driver and vehicle. However, the new porsches are very comfortable but have thunderous performance as well. If you have driven these cars you know the level of improvement over the last models in terms of perfomance. If a sports car for you is supposed to be barren inside you have to look no further than the elise. I feel the elise has a much more japanese look than the 987 and I love that styling also. And dont think japanese is bad. For me japanese styling has for the most part just been a little more flamboyant rather than elegant.
I feel porsche design has always been very sophisticated with elegant lines that are proving to be timeless (ie 40 years of 911). They may not be as flashy or radical as other makes but the designs do not grow old. To me the early 986 design is still beautiful, same goes for 993 and older 911s. They still look really good. Its hard to say that about too many cars. most designs really wtart to show their age after a few years. This timelessness of design coupled with the high level of engineering wrapped in a package which fuses man and machine like no other brand of car I have driven is why I believe porsche has built up such a reputation and following.
05-06-2005, 02:46 PM
#3
Race Director
Thread Starter
good point on the side intakes. That sticks out like a fly on a wedding cake and bolsters my impression of the 987 appearing more Japanese than German. I don't think any of the new BMW's or Audi's could ever be confused for Japanese cars. Sorry to disagree but the headlights are not just the only thing that appear retro to me. The lines below the headlights, parking lights on both the 987 and in particular on the 997 GT3 seem to be a bizzare jumble of 993 and RX8.
The lines on the front of the 987 have a boxy, sterile feel to them that really don't seem to me like a progression of the fluid desing of 986,996 and 996 Turbos, GT3's.
THe back of the new Cayman seems to be more in the direction of a progression of the 996. I wish they had worked on that concept with regards to the front.
I know that Porsche have a previous VW history but in 2005 I don't think that your $75,000 Carrera should ever be likened to a chick car like the new Beetle.
The lines on the front of the 987 have a boxy, sterile feel to them that really don't seem to me like a progression of the fluid desing of 986,996 and 996 Turbos, GT3's.
THe back of the new Cayman seems to be more in the direction of a progression of the 996. I wish they had worked on that concept with regards to the front.
I know that Porsche have a previous VW history but in 2005 I don't think that your $75,000 Carrera should ever be likened to a chick car like the new Beetle.
05-06-2005, 03:51 PM
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I seriously doubt a single person would confuse a 911 and a beetle!!!
However, what i was saying is that there would logically be some small resemblance because they share the same history. They both have round headlights and thats it.
I think new BMWs look much more along the lines of japanese styling.
I have heard many others make this comment as well.
Look at the lower front facia of a 996 4S/Turbo. It has very similar design to the 987.
Most of the comments I have heard say this was the best looking 996.
I guess whatever the case, as you said, styling is subjective.
I really like the new designs.
However, what i was saying is that there would logically be some small resemblance because they share the same history. They both have round headlights and thats it.
I think new BMWs look much more along the lines of japanese styling.
I have heard many others make this comment as well.
Look at the lower front facia of a 996 4S/Turbo. It has very similar design to the 987.
Most of the comments I have heard say this was the best looking 996.
I guess whatever the case, as you said, styling is subjective.
I really like the new designs.
05-06-2005, 04:49 PM
#5
Rennlist Member
I really like the new design and think it looks far better than the 986 in all aspects.
Everyones tastes are different. Heck, I see a lot of Pontiac Aztecs around.
That's what makes the world go around.
I have a Lexus and a 987 and the interiors of the two do not resemble each other in any way
Everyones tastes are different. Heck, I see a lot of Pontiac Aztecs around.
That's what makes the world go around.
I have a Lexus and a 987 and the interiors of the two do not resemble each other in any way
05-06-2005, 04:50 PM
#6
Race Director
Thread Starter
glad to hear your comments delesh,
but do you really think the VW Beetle comparision to the 997/987 is just the shape of the headlights?
aside from the headlight assembly itself Look at the placement and spacing of of the headlights.
Both the Beetle and 997/987 have the headlights situated on the extreme outer edge of the fender.
The grills on the Beetle and 997 are both long rectangular and simiar in height.
At least the 987 has large Turbo-like grill opening, its saving grace in my book.
Also look at the placement of the parking lights on the corners of the bumper,
how about the area running below the edge of the hood; its proportional in shape and area to that on the VW beetle.
The hood shape and line on the Beetle and the 987/997 are also very similar elements.
Surely from the back and sides no one could ever confuse the two that much I certainly agree.
But its hard to say that the front of the Beetle and 987/997 are radically different in design.
but do you really think the VW Beetle comparision to the 997/987 is just the shape of the headlights?
aside from the headlight assembly itself Look at the placement and spacing of of the headlights.
Both the Beetle and 997/987 have the headlights situated on the extreme outer edge of the fender.
The grills on the Beetle and 997 are both long rectangular and simiar in height.
At least the 987 has large Turbo-like grill opening, its saving grace in my book.
Also look at the placement of the parking lights on the corners of the bumper,
how about the area running below the edge of the hood; its proportional in shape and area to that on the VW beetle.
The hood shape and line on the Beetle and the 987/997 are also very similar elements.
Surely from the back and sides no one could ever confuse the two that much I certainly agree.
But its hard to say that the front of the Beetle and 987/997 are radically different in design.
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05-06-2005, 06:29 PM
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Agreed, placement of the components on the front is similar from directly in front.
These compoents are, as I said before, based on the old models they have evolved from and will naturally have some similarity.
However, seen in person (3-D) the proportions are totally different.
The 997 headlights are situated in their wings and swept fairly far back and angled while the hood slopes down between them.
The beetle hood and lights are just one big round hump with the hood actually higher than the lights.
Looking at a picture (2-D) taken directly from the front will shorten the nose of the 911 and bring the lights to a more upright position making it much more round looking and thus closer to the proportions of the beetle.
The grills in my opinion are not similar at all.
The central scoop on the 997 is very reminiscent of the 1973 RSR.
The beetle grill is almost under the car where the 911 is more agressively displayed.
Porsche really never used super large front openings on rear and mid-engined cars as the front is sloped so much without an engine housed underneath.
The 987 is not really boxy in the front unless you feel the CGT is also boxy.
The fronts are remarkable similar in shape with the CGT much lower at the front making it a little more aggressive.
You cant really compare car designs from a single vantage point. The design must be experienced as a whole in three dimensions.
These compoents are, as I said before, based on the old models they have evolved from and will naturally have some similarity.
However, seen in person (3-D) the proportions are totally different.
The 997 headlights are situated in their wings and swept fairly far back and angled while the hood slopes down between them.
The beetle hood and lights are just one big round hump with the hood actually higher than the lights.
Looking at a picture (2-D) taken directly from the front will shorten the nose of the 911 and bring the lights to a more upright position making it much more round looking and thus closer to the proportions of the beetle.
The grills in my opinion are not similar at all.
The central scoop on the 997 is very reminiscent of the 1973 RSR.
The beetle grill is almost under the car where the 911 is more agressively displayed.
Porsche really never used super large front openings on rear and mid-engined cars as the front is sloped so much without an engine housed underneath.
The 987 is not really boxy in the front unless you feel the CGT is also boxy.
The fronts are remarkable similar in shape with the CGT much lower at the front making it a little more aggressive.
You cant really compare car designs from a single vantage point. The design must be experienced as a whole in three dimensions.
05-06-2005, 09:26 PM
#9
Nordschleife Master
Depending on how you take the picture, a Porsche can look like any car. There was even a 997 that looked like a VW Beetle. Come to think of it, the 993 does look like a Beetle that has been stretched.
Beauty, indeed, is in the eye of the beholder. But, to mistake the 987 for a Japanese car? Only the blind or totally ignorant can mistake it for a Japanese car.
Beauty, indeed, is in the eye of the beholder. But, to mistake the 987 for a Japanese car? Only the blind or totally ignorant can mistake it for a Japanese car.
05-06-2005, 10:46 PM
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I think the 987 is a natural progression and looks great except the intakes (maybe the look better painted). But in no way do I want to jump ship and trade for a 987. Actually I appreciate my 986 S even more. 8 year old design and still looks awesome.
05-06-2005, 10:51 PM
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The quality of the interior is better but I don't like the design. It doesn't look Japanese, but doesn't look too sporty. With that said, I probably can get used to it.
05-07-2005, 03:43 PM
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History Lesson
"I almost started thinking, 'New Beetle on steriods'."
Of course, some of us think the old beetle was better looking. There again, history repeats itself.
Personally, I see the new 987 as having the best looking frontal view since the 964.
Of course, some of us think the old beetle was better looking. There again, history repeats itself.
Personally, I see the new 987 as having the best looking frontal view since the 964.
05-08-2005, 11:44 PM
#13
The side intakes on the 987 are the only thing that looks ****ty on the new design...very cheap looking and screaming to be replaced or at least painted black. Beetles dont have side intakes by the way
05-09-2005, 12:39 AM
#14
Nordschleife Master
I like the side intakes. Better than the round hole on the side, IMHO. I do agree it should be body color, though. Easy enough to remedy. Now, where's that spray can?
