AndreSantos

Greetings guys and gals. I'm new here and I'm in the market for my first Porsche
Been sulking in the forum for a while, but never registered until now.

I'm looking for a 987.2 Boxster S manual.
From all I've read this seems to be a properly engineered sportscar (when compared with offers at the same price from other brands at least), and offer a really good balance between modern and oldschool -- Modern(ish) but still "analog".
I've considered a 911 (I've looked at a few different generations), but after me and my gf did a roadtrip across the USA on a convertible, my gf convinced me to make it a convertible.
And if it's a convertible, then I much prefer the smaller Boxster.

So down to my question, since I can't really find a lot of information on it, or many opinions (I found some, but not enough to help me decide):
PSM on 987.2 Boxster and Cayman. I've read it cannot be completely turned off
How intrusive is it really?
I've read that it gets better if the car has the Sport Chrono package. How intrusive is it then?

Having such a safety net on a road-car is a welcome addition, but not being able to completely turn it off... that's a step too far for me personally, I think I could only live with it IF with the Sport Chrono package makes a large difference that actually allows you to have some slip angle if you decide so, from useful slip angle on a track-day to full hooligan. Having such control is one of the largest joys of a proper drivers car.
The Sport chrono package adds sport and sport+ modes right? Which increase the margin before PSM intervenes. Is that correct? My question then is if someone knows from experience just how much leeway does the PSM give you on sport and sport+ mode when turned off ?

The reason why this is important is that I'm having trouble finding a car that has what I'm looking for, most of the ones I find have PSM.
Just the other day I found what looked like a really good offer with great specs only to then find out when the seller provided me with extra photos that it has the cursed PSM...
I'm eyeing another car that has PSM, but also the Sport Chrono... so I'm wondering if I should just bite the bullet of if it's something I'll regret having.

All these cars are too far away to go there just to get a test drive, so I'm trying to inform myself as best as I can before I narrow down my search.

Thanks in advance

sectachrome

Yes, correct. You can also retrofit Sport Mode, albeit without the dash clock.

I'll preface this by acknowledging that yes, I have the base engine at high altitude and therefore not dealing with gobs of power.
But I don't really think its a hooligan, drifty type of car. It just wants to grip. Rotate, sure, but I don't think youll be doing lurid powerslides. I've never felt the need to turn PSM off on the street or the track personally. There are TONS of 987s that get tracked and Ive never heard of it being a problem. Usually what I hear people say is "if PSM is intervening too much, you're over driving the car".

Another thing to note is that there is PASM (Porsche Active Suspension Management) which was an option, and PSM (Porsche Stability Management) which is standard on every car. You're not going to find one without it.

AndreSantos

Wait what? =P

I seem to remember reading somewhere that the PSM was optional. Perhaps it depends on the market?
But after reading your post I looked up the brochure from the 987.2 Boxster and Cayman and it does indeed say PSM is standard.
However, it then mentions that Sport Chrono Plus must be taken together with PSM, which indicates PSM should be an optional -- which is why it makes me think it is optional or standard depending on the markets.

Also, 987s here in Germany I've see two different buttons for the "traction control". One says "PSM OFF", which clearly indicates that car has PSM. And others simply have the typical car sliding icon.

What else would explain the different button? But now I'll have to research some more.

I asked at a Porsche center if the Sport Chrono could be retrofitted and I got a negative answer, but perhaps they were thinking specifically about the dashboard clock, which I'm not interested in.
I'll inquire further.

Don't get me wrong, I have no illusions or intentions of drifting the car around if that was the whole point I'd get a beater 3series just to melt some rubber =P
I just personally don't like a safety system that can't be totally turned off, I experienced that in a mercedes "sportscar" and it was super annoying.

Regarding people tracking 987 without problems: I found quite a few posts (here at Rennlist even) about people reporting boiling brake fluid, excessive rear brake pads and whatnot. Which is what caught my attention on the whole PSM issue in the first place :|


Thank you for the feedback so far, I already have more information to carry on!
Ideally thought I'd still like to get more feedback from more drivers.

Thanks again


EDIT: so... I got bamboozled by all the Porsche acronyms! The Sport Chrono Plus optional says "in conjunction with PCM" not PSM...

Ok, so what's up with the different button for the PSM / ESP button on different cars?

SFZ GT3

Pretty simple I believe. Different markets (and their regulatory bodies), i.e. DOT/NHTSA here in the US, have different standards/requirements of how vehicles comply with standards. In the case of PSM, the "squiggly" icon is what s required; in others, it is a script like "DSC", "PSM'" etc. As others have said, in the NA market, our cars use the icon for PSM, etc., not any letters. PSM is the marketing term that PCNA uses to describe the feature, but the DOT/NHTSA requires the squiggly icon on the actual user interface. Does that help?

Schwinn

I did some reading yesterday, but didn't post because I wasn't sure, but I agree, I think PSM is standard on 987-series. From my reading, it seems it may have been an option on 986.

I know my 987.2 has PSM, but I don't have other options (PASM, etc)... I'm also a manual trans, so Sport Chrono doesn't make as much sense anyway.

That being said, I ran across a few webpages that may be helpful to understand how this works, especially relative to the other options. Take a look:
https://stuart-brown.photography/porschepsmpasmscp
https://presskit.porsche.de/specials...ndstrecke.html

Granted, both links aren't 987-specific, either, but they have some good general info...

As others noted, this isn't a melt-the-tires type car... it's about handling and grip, and it's really impressive how much it has. I have to spend quite a bit of effort to get it to swing out (granted, I'm non-S and I don't push that hard on the street anyway). But even when I've done that PSM doesn't seem that intrusive in normal mode, and you can turn it down/off to some degree. I haven't attempted to do donuts, so I can't speak to how "off" it really can get, but from what I read it's really not bad. Heck, I found some posts with people WANTING the option (986, again)... so if it was good back then, then it's likely better in the later iterations.

The one place I saw people saying NOT to get it are those running in competitions. There, if you are that skilled, you don't need (or want) it... but even there those people simply turned it off, so the threshold was high enough to not bother them anyway. It seems (from the latter link above) that Porsche's "off" may really be OFF (unlike my friend's BMW, which I've experienced and seen it kick on even when it was turned "off").

sectachrome

Here are some threads from the Racing/HPDE sub-forum, you might find more info there.
https://rennlist.com/forums/racing-a...-for-de-s.html
https://rennlist.com/forums/racing-a...-me-along.html

I really don't think it's something to be that concerned about. Every single Porsche since 2000-something has PSM. You can turn it off, it will just come back on automatically if you really screw up. Unless you're Hurley Haywood I think you'll be fine.

Re: Sport mode retrofit
Sounds like you're in Germany and this is a US based dealer/store, but just for your reference:
https://www.suncoastparts.com/product/9X7SM.html
^ Basically you get a new button row to install that includes the "Sport" buttons, and then you would need a dealer to flash your ECU to enable it.

AndreSantos

I wish it did, but all the cars I saw were inside Germany which should all be one market with same regulations 😅 I’ve already wrote a Porsche center directly to inquire about this. It’s probably the case that I misunderstood when I got the information that PSM was an extra.

AndreSantos

Thank you!
that’s really great info and feedback there 👌

AndreSantos

Oh, I missed your post earlier!

From the explanation on some Porsche documents I found online and also explanations from other members it seems like it should be off until you really mess it up OR there's ABS activation on the front wheels (possibly a trigger that it's an emergency)
But if that's the case I really don't understand the people complaining about fluid overheat and whatnot.

Anyway, so far the info has been really useful guys! Thank you for your time everyone