2007 Base Cayman with 83k miles
11-29-2017, 12:16 PM
#1
Instructor
Thread Starter
2007 Base Cayman with 83k miles
I just came across this car at a local Volvo dealer. They just got it in on a trade. Asking price of just over $18k Would the amount of miles concern you? I’m not that familiar with the 2007 Cayman. What questions should I ask? Any help would be welcomed.
11-29-2017, 07:56 PM
#2
Instructor
Thread Starter
I’m going to see the car on Friday. What is the general consensus on the 07 base Cayman? Anything I should be weary of that’s specific to this model year Cayman?
11-29-2017, 08:15 PM
#4
Instructor
Thread Starter
11-29-2017, 08:17 PM
#5
Unless you know the mileage (which WAS stated), options and condition, almost any price could be too high or too low.
Face value, it does sound on the high(er) side, but could be a decent value depending on condition and options. OTOH, if they just took it in, and that's what they're asking, in combination with the fact that it's the beginning of winter (actually - didn't notice your location...) you may be able to get it for $12k if you go in with the green. I bet they didn't allow more than about $10k on trade-in.
Based on my limited exposure and research, the likely largest potential issue is the IMS bearing. And it's a kind of catch-22 situation, whereas the 987.1 version is the least likely to fail, it's also the most expensive (to the point where it's probably not worth it) to mitigate. See https://www.oregonpca.org/resources/...he-full-story/ for more info.
BTW - who trades a Porsche for a Volvo???
11-29-2017, 08:21 PM
#6
Instructor
Thread Starter
My opinion is different.
Unless you know the mileage (which WAS stated), options and condition, almost any price could be too high or too low.
Face value, it does sound on the high(er) side, but could be a decent value depending on condition and options. OTOH, if they just took it in, and that's what they're asking, in combination with the fact that it's the beginning of winter (actually - didn't notice your location...) you may be able to get it for $12k if you go in with the green. I bet they didn't allow more than about $10k on trade-in.
Based on my limited exposure and research, the likely largest potential issue is the IMS bearing. And it's a kind of catch-22 situation, whereas the 987.1 version is the least likely to fail, it's also the most expensive (to the point where it's probably not worth it) to mitigate. See https://www.oregonpca.org/resources/...he-full-story/ for more info.
BTW - who trades a Porsche for a Volvo???
Unless you know the mileage (which WAS stated), options and condition, almost any price could be too high or too low.
Face value, it does sound on the high(er) side, but could be a decent value depending on condition and options. OTOH, if they just took it in, and that's what they're asking, in combination with the fact that it's the beginning of winter (actually - didn't notice your location...) you may be able to get it for $12k if you go in with the green. I bet they didn't allow more than about $10k on trade-in.
Based on my limited exposure and research, the likely largest potential issue is the IMS bearing. And it's a kind of catch-22 situation, whereas the 987.1 version is the least likely to fail, it's also the most expensive (to the point where it's probably not worth it) to mitigate. See https://www.oregonpca.org/resources/...he-full-story/ for more info.
BTW - who trades a Porsche for a Volvo???
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11-29-2017, 08:31 PM
#8
Race Director
Here's something I've posted before. Instead of directing you to use the search function I'll just repost.
Cayman check out:
Visit the car cold and be sure the CEL comes on when you turn the key on and goes off when you start the engine. Let the cold engine idle -- turn off the A/C for now -- while you walk around the car. Look at body panel fits and finish. Check the age of the tires. Porsche considers tires to be past their replace by date after 6 years. If the tires are not N-rated and matching you probably want to budget for new tires. If the tread wear is uneven budget for an alignment after having new tires mounted.
Check brake rotor condition. A 1mm lip around the edge of the rotor is a sign the rotor is worn out and new rotors and pads and other hardware will be needed. As an aside: Brake fluid (and if a manual clutch fluid) flush/bleed should be done at this time. This is due every 2 years.
Check the radiator ducts. If trash present and it will be budget for a front bumper cover removal to get that trash out. If the radiators are full of trash odds are the body water drains are too. Bring along a Torx tool bit set (get the security bit set) and use the tool to remove the screw that holds the panel on either side of the battery -- under the front trunk lid -- so you can view the front body water drains. If the trash is there get this cleaned out first thing if you buy the car. If the trash is wet, or worse, water is standing in the basin you probably want to walk away. Water can overflow into the cabin and the security module is located on the cabin floor under the driver seat and this module gets wet. That ain't good.
All the while you do whatever you do keep an ear tuned to the engine. It should not make any knocks, ticks, or other sounds other than those of a healthy engine. The idle should be smooth and shortly after you start the engine the idle speed should drop to near its normal hot idle level. The idle speed should be pretty stable.
After some stationary checks then have the seller take you on a test ride. The route wants to be 15 miles long (at least) and selected to give the driver a chance to demo the car as you intend to drive it. Stop and go driving. Boulevard cruising. Once the engine is fully warmed up then a hard acceleration run up through 2 gears then some highway miles. You want a real mix.
Back at the starting point change seats and drive the car over teh same route the same way.
The clutch will have a rather high engagement point -- normal for these cars -- but the engagment should be very smooth. The clutch pedal effort should not be high but you need exposure to other examples to know what's normal. At some point put the transmission in 4th or 5th gear at around 2K and floor the gas pedal and hold for a while. You want to check if the clutch slips.
If the car equipped with a Tip/PDK have the seller do a K-turn early with the transmission cold. Then later when the transmission is hot. You want to verify the transmission can handle changes in direction in rapid succession. 'course, the transmission want to manifest no signs of any issues at any other times too.
Back at the starting point if you still like the car give every system a check out. From the headlights to tail lights, brake lights. The spoiler. Let the engine idle and be sure the radiator fans come on and both blow hot air and the same amount. The engine compartment fan will probably come on and be sure it runs and blows a good amount of air out the bottom of the engine compartment.
Use your nose. You should not smell raw fuel or anti-freeze. If you do there's a fuel or coolant leak.
Might add the engine should still be free of any "scary" noises at this point as well as at any other time during the check out.
After all the above then ideally you want a PPI which among other things gets the car in the air so a thorough check for any leak sign can be made. Every gasket, seal, o-ring, CV boot, hydraulic line, line fitting, hose, hose connection, oil/water heat exchangers, radiator, steering rack lines and so on need to be checked for oil or water or other fluid leak sign.
A leaking water pump or radiator is not the end of the world but you have to factor the cost of addressing these or any other issues into your offer price.
Might as well mention this here: The rule of thumb is to have set aside 10% of a used car's purchase price for just in case. With a Porsche given the higher cost of parts/labor/repairs/etc. (though you can save some money if you do the work yourself) I'd bump this to 20%.
Couple of things to close with. Price is not fact only an opinion.
And if you find something "wrong" with the car walk away. There is always another car.
I am not up on used Cayman market prices. My usual advice is to visit www.nada.com and www.kbb.com and fill in the car's details and get the wholesale/trade in price, private sale price, retail price. If the sites disagree on the value of the car, pick the lower numbers. Not your job to do the seller's job. Not your job to try to reconcile the differences in numbers.
If the car checks out the car is then worth somewhere between its trade in/wholesale price and what the seller is willing to accept and you are willing to pay. I can tell you invariably a dealer prices a used car optimistically, especially a "halo" car. A mark up of 10% is a given. (A flag is if a car is priced below market. This suggests there is a problem with the car and the seller's looking to lure someone in for a quick no questions asked sale.) Generally the mark up is higher. A halo car gets priced to reward the salesman handsomely for selling the car. You have room to negotiate.
Enjoy shopping for your Porsche. The next best thing to owning/driving a Porsche is shopping for your first or next Porsche.
11-29-2017, 08:34 PM
#9
Race Director
Be careful. The Volvo dealer may not use the right fluids. See if you can insist the fluid services be done at a Porsche dealer and you want to see copies of the work invoices *before* you buy the car.
11-29-2017, 08:43 PM
#10
Instructor
Thread Starter
The Cayman is just a used car so a thorough used car check out can go a long way to answering your questions. The Volvo dealer can tell you how many wheels the Cayman has but that's about it.
Here's something I've posted before. Instead of directing you to use the search ffunction I'll just repost.
Cayman check out:
Visit the car cold and be sure the CEL comes on when you turn the key on and goes off when you start the engine. Let the cold engine idle -- turn off the A/C for now -- while you walk around the car. Look at body panel fits and finish. Check the age of the tires. Porsche considers tires to be past their replace by date after 6 years. If the tires are not N-rated and matching you probably want to budget for new tires. If the tread wear is uneven budget for an alignment after having new tires mounted.
Check brake rotor condition. A 1mm lip around the edge of the rotor is a sign the rotor is worn out and new rotors and pads and other hardware will be needed. As an aside: Brake fluid (and if a manual clutch fluid) flush/bleed should be done at this time. This is due every 2 years.
Check the radiator ducts. If trash present and it will be budget for a front bumper cover removal to get that trash out. If the radiators are full of trash odds are the body water drains are too. Bring along a Torx tool bit set (get the security bit set) and use the tool to remove the screw that holds the panel on either side of the battery -- under the front trunk lid -- so you can view the front body water drains. If the trash is there get this cleaned out first thing if you buy the car. If the trash is wet, or worse, water is standing in the basin you probably want to walk away. Water can overflow into the cabin and the security module is located on the cabin floor under the driver seat and this module gets wet. That ain't good.
All the while you do whatever you do keep an ear tuned to the engine. It should not make any knocks, ticks, or other sounds other than those of a healthy engine. The idle should be smooth and shortly after you start the engine the idle speed should drop to near its normal hot idle level. The idle speed should be pretty stable.
After some stationary checks then have the seller take you on a test ride. The route wants to be 15 miles long (at least) and selected to give the driver a chance to demo the car as you intend to drive it. Stop and go driving. Boulevard cruising. Once the engine is fully warmed up then a hard acceleration run up through 2 gears then some highway miles. You want a real mix.
Back at the starting point change seats and drive the car over teh same route the same way.
The clutch will have a rather high engagement point -- normal for these cars -- but the engagment should be very smooth. The clutch pedal effort should not be high but you need exposure to other examples to know what's normal. At some point put the transmission in 4th or 5th gear at around 2K and floor the gas pedal and hold for a while. You want to check if the clutch slips.
If the car equipped with a Tip/PDK have the seller do a K-turn early with the transmission cold. Then later when the transmission is hot. You want to verify the transmission can handle changes in direction in rapid succession. 'course, the transmission want to manifest no signs of any issues at any other times too.
Back at the starting point if you still like the car give every system a check out. From the headlights to tail lights, brake lights. The spoiler. Let the engine idle and be sure the radiator fans come on and both blow hot air and the same amount. The engine compartment fan will probably come on and be sure it runs and blows a good amount of air out the bottom of the engine compartment.
Use your nose. You should not smell raw fuel or anti-freeze. If you do there's a fuel or coolant leak.
Might add the engine should still be free of any "scary" noises at this point as well as at any other time during the check out.
After all the above then ideally you want a PPI which among other things gets the car in the air so a thorough check for any leak sign can be made. Every gasket, seal, o-ring, CV boot, hydraulic line, line fitting, hose, hose connection, oil/water heat exchangers, radiator, steering rack lines and so on need to be checked for oil or water or other fluid leak sign.
A leaking water pump or radiator is not the end of the world but you have to factor the cost of addressing these or any other issues into your offer price.
Might as well mention this here: The rule of thumb is to have set aside 10% of a used car's purchase price for just in case. With a Porsche given the higher cost of parts/labor/repairs/etc. (though you can save some money if you do the work yourself) I'd bump this to 20%.
Couple of things to close with. Price is not fact only an opinion.
And if you find something "wrong" with the car walk away. There is always another car.
I am not up on used Cayman market prices. My usual advice is to visit www.nada.com and www.kbb.com and fill in the car's details and get the wholesale/trade in price, private sale price, retail price. If the sites disagree on the value of the car, pick the lower numbers. Not your job to do the seller's job. Not your job to try to reconcile the differences in numbers.
If the car checks out the car is then worth somewhere between its trade in/wholesale price and what the seller is willing to accept and you are willing to pay. I can tell you invariably a dealer prices a used car optimistically, especially a "halo" car. A mark up of 10% is a given. (A flag is if a car is priced below market. This suggests there is a problem with the car and the seller's looking to lure someone in for a quick no questions asked sale.) Generally the mark up is higher. A halo car gets priced to reward the salesman handsomely for selling the car. You have room to negotiate.
Enjoy shopping for your Porsche. The next best thing to owning/driving a Porsche is shopping for your first or next Porsche.
Here's something I've posted before. Instead of directing you to use the search ffunction I'll just repost.
Cayman check out:
Visit the car cold and be sure the CEL comes on when you turn the key on and goes off when you start the engine. Let the cold engine idle -- turn off the A/C for now -- while you walk around the car. Look at body panel fits and finish. Check the age of the tires. Porsche considers tires to be past their replace by date after 6 years. If the tires are not N-rated and matching you probably want to budget for new tires. If the tread wear is uneven budget for an alignment after having new tires mounted.
Check brake rotor condition. A 1mm lip around the edge of the rotor is a sign the rotor is worn out and new rotors and pads and other hardware will be needed. As an aside: Brake fluid (and if a manual clutch fluid) flush/bleed should be done at this time. This is due every 2 years.
Check the radiator ducts. If trash present and it will be budget for a front bumper cover removal to get that trash out. If the radiators are full of trash odds are the body water drains are too. Bring along a Torx tool bit set (get the security bit set) and use the tool to remove the screw that holds the panel on either side of the battery -- under the front trunk lid -- so you can view the front body water drains. If the trash is there get this cleaned out first thing if you buy the car. If the trash is wet, or worse, water is standing in the basin you probably want to walk away. Water can overflow into the cabin and the security module is located on the cabin floor under the driver seat and this module gets wet. That ain't good.
All the while you do whatever you do keep an ear tuned to the engine. It should not make any knocks, ticks, or other sounds other than those of a healthy engine. The idle should be smooth and shortly after you start the engine the idle speed should drop to near its normal hot idle level. The idle speed should be pretty stable.
After some stationary checks then have the seller take you on a test ride. The route wants to be 15 miles long (at least) and selected to give the driver a chance to demo the car as you intend to drive it. Stop and go driving. Boulevard cruising. Once the engine is fully warmed up then a hard acceleration run up through 2 gears then some highway miles. You want a real mix.
Back at the starting point change seats and drive the car over teh same route the same way.
The clutch will have a rather high engagement point -- normal for these cars -- but the engagment should be very smooth. The clutch pedal effort should not be high but you need exposure to other examples to know what's normal. At some point put the transmission in 4th or 5th gear at around 2K and floor the gas pedal and hold for a while. You want to check if the clutch slips.
If the car equipped with a Tip/PDK have the seller do a K-turn early with the transmission cold. Then later when the transmission is hot. You want to verify the transmission can handle changes in direction in rapid succession. 'course, the transmission want to manifest no signs of any issues at any other times too.
Back at the starting point if you still like the car give every system a check out. From the headlights to tail lights, brake lights. The spoiler. Let the engine idle and be sure the radiator fans come on and both blow hot air and the same amount. The engine compartment fan will probably come on and be sure it runs and blows a good amount of air out the bottom of the engine compartment.
Use your nose. You should not smell raw fuel or anti-freeze. If you do there's a fuel or coolant leak.
Might add the engine should still be free of any "scary" noises at this point as well as at any other time during the check out.
After all the above then ideally you want a PPI which among other things gets the car in the air so a thorough check for any leak sign can be made. Every gasket, seal, o-ring, CV boot, hydraulic line, line fitting, hose, hose connection, oil/water heat exchangers, radiator, steering rack lines and so on need to be checked for oil or water or other fluid leak sign.
A leaking water pump or radiator is not the end of the world but you have to factor the cost of addressing these or any other issues into your offer price.
Might as well mention this here: The rule of thumb is to have set aside 10% of a used car's purchase price for just in case. With a Porsche given the higher cost of parts/labor/repairs/etc. (though you can save some money if you do the work yourself) I'd bump this to 20%.
Couple of things to close with. Price is not fact only an opinion.
And if you find something "wrong" with the car walk away. There is always another car.
I am not up on used Cayman market prices. My usual advice is to visit www.nada.com and www.kbb.com and fill in the car's details and get the wholesale/trade in price, private sale price, retail price. If the sites disagree on the value of the car, pick the lower numbers. Not your job to do the seller's job. Not your job to try to reconcile the differences in numbers.
If the car checks out the car is then worth somewhere between its trade in/wholesale price and what the seller is willing to accept and you are willing to pay. I can tell you invariably a dealer prices a used car optimistically, especially a "halo" car. A mark up of 10% is a given. (A flag is if a car is priced below market. This suggests there is a problem with the car and the seller's looking to lure someone in for a quick no questions asked sale.) Generally the mark up is higher. A halo car gets priced to reward the salesman handsomely for selling the car. You have room to negotiate.
Enjoy shopping for your Porsche. The next best thing to owning/driving a Porsche is shopping for your first or next Porsche.
11-30-2017, 06:12 AM
#11
Rennlist Member
Macster's post is a great start. A couple of thoughts/opinions.....
......83k is not low mileage, obviously, but properly maintained, there's a lot of life left. If there are service records, that's a big plus. By now there should likely have been new clutch, water pump, AOS, brakes, etc.
......Car should have had 40 and 80k services which include belt, plugs, etc. Carfax or Autocheck should have some indication of this.
......If your own inspection like good, have a PPI done. It will be money well spent.
......If the dealer is going to put on new tires, look at car with old tires....wear pattern, age, matching or not. That will tell you a lot.
.....As mentioned above, price is a factor of multiple considerations, age, mileage, condition, maintenance, and aesthetics. If this car is nice and has a known history, 12k is way too low.
Good luck with your hunt.
......83k is not low mileage, obviously, but properly maintained, there's a lot of life left. If there are service records, that's a big plus. By now there should likely have been new clutch, water pump, AOS, brakes, etc.
......Car should have had 40 and 80k services which include belt, plugs, etc. Carfax or Autocheck should have some indication of this.
......If your own inspection like good, have a PPI done. It will be money well spent.
......If the dealer is going to put on new tires, look at car with old tires....wear pattern, age, matching or not. That will tell you a lot.
.....As mentioned above, price is a factor of multiple considerations, age, mileage, condition, maintenance, and aesthetics. If this car is nice and has a known history, 12k is way too low.
Good luck with your hunt.
11-30-2017, 09:33 AM
#12
Instructor
Thread Starter
Here's the CARFAX report since the 2nd owner purchased the car in 2010:
12/16/2010 34,235 Connecticut Motor Vehicle Dept. Newington, CT
Title #032451803 Title issued or updated
New owner reported
Loan or lien reported
07/08/2011 44,593 Hoffman Porsche
40,000 mile service performed
Wheel bearing(s)/hub(s) replaced
Four wheel alignment performed
06/19/2014 66,637 Tony's Imported Auto Service
Brakes checked
Brake pads replaced
Cooling system checked
05/17/2016 76,054 Tony's Imported Auto Service
Maintenance inspection completed
Engine/powertrain computer/module checked
Computer(s) checked
Fuel filler cap replaced
Oil and filter changed
Fluids checked
Tire condition and pressure checked
Battery/charging system checked
Maintenance reminder reset
Brakes checked
09/22/2016 78,508 Tony's Imported Auto Service
Front brake rotor(s) replaced
Drivability/performance checked
11/28/2017 83,125 Dealer Inventory Vehicle offered for sale
12/16/2010 34,235 Connecticut Motor Vehicle Dept. Newington, CT
Title #032451803 Title issued or updated
New owner reported
Loan or lien reported
07/08/2011 44,593 Hoffman Porsche
40,000 mile service performed
Wheel bearing(s)/hub(s) replaced
Four wheel alignment performed
06/19/2014 66,637 Tony's Imported Auto Service
Brakes checked
Brake pads replaced
Cooling system checked
05/17/2016 76,054 Tony's Imported Auto Service
Maintenance inspection completed
Engine/powertrain computer/module checked
Computer(s) checked
Fuel filler cap replaced
Oil and filter changed
Fluids checked
Tire condition and pressure checked
Battery/charging system checked
Maintenance reminder reset
Brakes checked
09/22/2016 78,508 Tony's Imported Auto Service
Front brake rotor(s) replaced
Drivability/performance checked
11/28/2017 83,125 Dealer Inventory Vehicle offered for sale
11-30-2017, 03:49 PM
#13
Before you make an offer, find out how much it'd cost to replace everything suspect, like engine air filters, oil and filter change, transmission fluid change, drive belts (not mentioned), coolant change (not mentioned either), spark plugs (not mentioned), ignition coils (known to fail, and cheap enough for piece of mind), brake fluid flush, and even battery. If you're mechanically inclined, you can do all of that yourself. Hardest job would be the belt, but the rest is relatively easy. Brake rotors and pads are easy to physically check and change if needed, but at least the front rotors should be fine, since they were replaced recently. The last thing which I know nothing about is the dreaded IMS, so look for tips on what to look for, and how expensive is to replace if needed down the road. I admire folks brave enough to buy one of the first Boxsters with so many miles
. Good luck.
. Good luck.
11-30-2017, 04:06 PM
#14
Instructor
Thread Starter
Before you make an offer, find out how much it'd cost to replace everything suspect, like engine air filters, oil and filter change, transmission fluid change, drive belts (not mentioned), coolant change (not mentioned either), spark plugs (not mentioned), ignition coils (known to fail, and cheap enough for piece of mind), brake fluid flush, and even battery. If you're mechanically inclined, you can do all of that yourself. Hardest job would be the belt, but the rest is relatively easy. Brake rotors and pads are easy to physically check and change if needed, but at least the front rotors should be fine, since they were replaced recently. The last thing which I know nothing about is the dreaded IMS, so look for tips on what to look for, and how expensive is to replace if needed down the road. I admire folks brave enough to buy one of the first Boxsters with so many miles. Good luck.
. Good luck.Last edited by lajoiedp; 11-30-2017 at 05:15 PM.
11-30-2017, 04:46 PM
#15
Hopefully the PPI shop will examine the oil filter for metal particles. Good luck changing the plugs yourself! (Its mighty tight in there). This should have been part of the 40k service and probably is needed again now. Personally, I think if you like the car and everything checks out, you have a great entry level Porsche. You would lose 18k in depreciation on a new model almost immediately.