981 thoughts
12-30-2016, 11:28 AM
#61
The question is, if there is a tire slip at an angle, will you be able to tell on the steering wheel?
I never had the opportunity to drive a EPS Porsche that hard, but I don't think so. I tried a bit on regular test drives and although the steering felt good for telling the car where to go it didn't communicate anything back to me.
It is more like turning an input-output device into input only.
Kind of like some USB hard drives which computer engineers have labeled "write-only devices"
I never had the opportunity to drive a EPS Porsche that hard, but I don't think so. I tried a bit on regular test drives and although the steering felt good for telling the car where to go it didn't communicate anything back to me.
It is more like turning an input-output device into input only.
Kind of like some USB hard drives which computer engineers have labeled "write-only devices"
12-30-2016, 11:37 AM
#62
Racer
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I think this argument applies to electric anything. When something goes from manual to electric you lose tactile feedback. Same is true with throttles, locks, windows, seats ect (although we like those electric)
When this electrification happens you must rely on some other senses or change your sense of "feel" to adapt. The problem comes if there are no other feelings to gather from the electric steering to get the same feedback
I agree with others the 997 steering feels better and i also thing the electric steering in 981 is pretty good.
When this electrification happens you must rely on some other senses or change your sense of "feel" to adapt. The problem comes if there are no other feelings to gather from the electric steering to get the same feedback
I agree with others the 997 steering feels better and i also thing the electric steering in 981 is pretty good.
12-30-2016, 11:44 AM
#63
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Thing is the EPS is evolving. The EPS in my 981 spyder is different to the rest of the 981 range outside a GT4. It has the turbo rack and it makes a positive difference and significantly so. Yes its still different to 997 GTs hydraulic but that always felt like it was poorly located in rubber bushings when the suspension was on normal but tightened up on sport. In the 981 all variants i never sensed this.
12-30-2016, 12:49 PM
#64
Rennlist Member
I would love to have the hydraulic steering of the 987 in the 981. However, the looks (exterior) of the 987 just doesn't do it for me. Interior means absolutely nothing to me 
I think essentially it boils down to the same thing. Larger displacement = more HP and more torque. Faster speeds and faster acceleration. The Cayman S I think does 0-60 in around 4.2 seconds. I'm sorry, but why would you ever do that on a public road? 4.2 is incredibly quick. I mean, that's so dangerous in an environment where you have moms driving their kids to and from school or extracurriculars, senior citizens, new drivers, pedestrians, cyclists..
So the question is, where do you use this extra torque, outside of autocross or a DE? When passing another car? Well I'd just like to point out that you don't need a 0-60 in 4.2 second car to make a pass and if you are in a passing situation clearly there are other cars on the road in close proximity meaning you should probably be driving even more cautiously than normal. I guess if it makes you feel good to blow past other cars rather than making a safe pass, then that would explain things. And if you do want to unleash all that "S" torque and HP even though it's dangerous and against the law, please do invest in DE and track time to actually learn how to drive the thing before you hurl 3000lbs of steel down the road.
So unless you're planning on tracking, racing, or otherwise endangering yourself and others on public roads, I really think the "S" (and really, most sports cars) comes down to a purely emotional decision (as opposed to a rational decision, as some of you seem to be trying to argue), knowing that you have a faster, more expensive (and exclusive) car, without ever really harnessing that faster, more expensive ability. That's completely fine, but at least let's be honest about it instead of talking about torque and HP in a vacuum assuming that more is surely the logically better option, as if we are not all constrained by the realities of traffic laws and the presence of other people on the public roads. Our cars even in their most basic trim are pure luxury, far more than we need and in many cases far more than we are qualified to handle at their limits.
I just have to quote Motortrend, who say it better than I do:
"But my advice is to assuage your guilt by contemplating the truly crazy $64,750 base price of its 325-hp (4.2-sec 0-60) big brother, the Cayman S. Sure, it’s faster. Pardon me, but the base Cayman is just as magnificently crafted, just as dead-bolt solid, and nearly as life-altering to drive, at least in a corner.
All of which should remind us to never question the axiom ‘Less is More.’ I don’t, and so much so that I won’t mince words here: this base Cayman, with a little 2.7-liter engine, is Porsche’s Best Sports Car. Hyperventilate all you like about it, 911-philes. If I were driving this car way back in my formative sport-car years, those golf/driving gloves would have quickly come off and been tossed in the glove box."
I think essentially it boils down to the same thing. Larger displacement = more HP and more torque. Faster speeds and faster acceleration. The Cayman S I think does 0-60 in around 4.2 seconds. I'm sorry, but why would you ever do that on a public road? 4.2 is incredibly quick. I mean, that's so dangerous in an environment where you have moms driving their kids to and from school or extracurriculars, senior citizens, new drivers, pedestrians, cyclists..
So the question is, where do you use this extra torque, outside of autocross or a DE? When passing another car? Well I'd just like to point out that you don't need a 0-60 in 4.2 second car to make a pass and if you are in a passing situation clearly there are other cars on the road in close proximity meaning you should probably be driving even more cautiously than normal. I guess if it makes you feel good to blow past other cars rather than making a safe pass, then that would explain things. And if you do want to unleash all that "S" torque and HP even though it's dangerous and against the law, please do invest in DE and track time to actually learn how to drive the thing before you hurl 3000lbs of steel down the road.
So unless you're planning on tracking, racing, or otherwise endangering yourself and others on public roads, I really think the "S" (and really, most sports cars) comes down to a purely emotional decision (as opposed to a rational decision, as some of you seem to be trying to argue), knowing that you have a faster, more expensive (and exclusive) car, without ever really harnessing that faster, more expensive ability. That's completely fine, but at least let's be honest about it instead of talking about torque and HP in a vacuum assuming that more is surely the logically better option, as if we are not all constrained by the realities of traffic laws and the presence of other people on the public roads. Our cars even in their most basic trim are pure luxury, far more than we need and in many cases far more than we are qualified to handle at their limits.
I just have to quote Motortrend, who say it better than I do:
"But my advice is to assuage your guilt by contemplating the truly crazy $64,750 base price of its 325-hp (4.2-sec 0-60) big brother, the Cayman S. Sure, it’s faster. Pardon me, but the base Cayman is just as magnificently crafted, just as dead-bolt solid, and nearly as life-altering to drive, at least in a corner.
All of which should remind us to never question the axiom ‘Less is More.’ I don’t, and so much so that I won’t mince words here: this base Cayman, with a little 2.7-liter engine, is Porsche’s Best Sports Car. Hyperventilate all you like about it, 911-philes. If I were driving this car way back in my formative sport-car years, those golf/driving gloves would have quickly come off and been tossed in the glove box."
Like you and a few other posters on this thread, I have moved from a series of 911S cars to a 981 Cayman GTS this month. I don't regret the move at all. Once you get past the 911 mystique and iconicity, I think the Cayman/Boxster models are better sports cars. Mid-engine designs are inherently superior no matter how much engineering Porsche invests in the 911. I loved my 911 cars but the newer ones are HUGE. The 981 Cayman/Boxster cars are wonderful sports cars and cost far less than a 991.2. You can't go wrong buying a 981 in my opinion.
Having driven both I personally think Porsche did a great job with the electric steering but there is without question a difference in the "feel" between the two. It has nothing to do with response or accuracy. Personally I think the steering response is better in the 981 and the accuracy is equal. The primary difference is the feedback you receive through the steering wheel. The granular feel that tells you when you're driving over a rough surface, or when the tires are starting to lose grip. It's not evident in the electric steering IMHO.
I think it's also important to mention that as technology advances the steering feedback has continued to filter out of the equation. As far as feedback goes, No Power Steering > Hydraulic Steering > Electric Steering.
But I'll go back to where I started and say that Porsche did a great job with their electric steering and I wouldn't be disappointed owning one.
YMMV
I think it's also important to mention that as technology advances the steering feedback has continued to filter out of the equation. As far as feedback goes, No Power Steering > Hydraulic Steering > Electric Steering.
But I'll go back to where I started and say that Porsche did a great job with their electric steering and I wouldn't be disappointed owning one.
YMMV
12-30-2016, 06:53 PM
#65
Like somebody said, Porsche has been silently tweaking their EPS. On my 2016 GTS with the German steering (PS+), it's absolutely perfect IMO. Same feel as the best hydraulic racks I've sampled (it's the same rack-and-pinion system, after all), weighted perfectly, and as quick as I want it, with a still precise on-center feel. Porsche finally got it right IMO. And much more reliable as well. No complaints for me, at least on this 2016
.
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12-31-2016, 10:56 AM
#66
Rennlist Member
For whatever it is worth, I can offer my experiences with the ownership of the 987 Boxster (2011) and the 981 Boxster S ( 2016 ). For background I have owned many 911s ( 996, 997-C2S cab, TT coupe, Turbo S cab).
The 981 is noticeably superior on every measure- solidity, handling, grip, aesthetics both exterior and especially interior. Many here do not believe the S is worth the extra cost but for me, the difference is huge. The extra HP and torque of the S makes the car more exciting to drive. Even on residential roads, the quicker acceleration from a stop transforms the character of the car. My wife, who is the primary driver, was dissatified with her 987 due to it feeling so slow and lacking in power. She grew wary of having to really push the throttle from a stop since the engine of the non S only perks up at high RPMs.
For both of us, going to the 981 Boxster S rekindled her affection for the Boxster and her joy in driving the car.
The 981 is noticeably superior on every measure- solidity, handling, grip, aesthetics both exterior and especially interior. Many here do not believe the S is worth the extra cost but for me, the difference is huge. The extra HP and torque of the S makes the car more exciting to drive. Even on residential roads, the quicker acceleration from a stop transforms the character of the car. My wife, who is the primary driver, was dissatified with her 987 due to it feeling so slow and lacking in power. She grew wary of having to really push the throttle from a stop since the engine of the non S only perks up at high RPMs.
For both of us, going to the 981 Boxster S rekindled her affection for the Boxster and her joy in driving the car.
Last edited by Coincident; 12-31-2016 at 11:35 AM.
12-31-2016, 12:30 PM
#68
Rennlist Member
Most wlcm Volnomad. I like Porsches with beautiful design lines and there's two that fit the bill - the 993 and 981 Cayman, both designed by the same guy. Then a great interior is nice to have as you spend more time looking at it than you do the exterior. The 981 rocks it.
Nice GTS! Good snag...
Nice GTS! Good snag...
01-01-2017, 12:13 AM
#70
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I came over to the Porsche mid-engine platform after owning several different 911s. My last one was a 996TT that had several tuning mods and was an absolute rocket on straightaways. But the new 981 styling together with the way the GT4 turned in up a notch performance wise, I just had to make the switch - and I have not regretted it at all.
The mid-engine balance is amazing! After several track days I am convinced this is the best performance platform in the Porsche stable. And, I think the the new 911 RSR is the first nod to that fact. Of course the 911 RSR engine was moved to take advantage of better use of the GTE aero rules but I think this change will lead to possibly another mid-engine Porsche that slots into the Ferrari/Lambo fighter spot.
Do it, you won't regret it!
The mid-engine balance is amazing! After several track days I am convinced this is the best performance platform in the Porsche stable. And, I think the the new 911 RSR is the first nod to that fact. Of course the 911 RSR engine was moved to take advantage of better use of the GTE aero rules but I think this change will lead to possibly another mid-engine Porsche that slots into the Ferrari/Lambo fighter spot.
Do it, you won't regret it!
01-02-2017, 04:30 PM
#72
I came over to the Porsche mid-engine platform after owning several different 911s. My last one was a 996TT that had several tuning mods and was an absolute rocket on straightaways. But the new 981 styling together with the way the GT4 turned in up a notch performance wise, I just had to make the switch - and I have not regretted it at all.
The mid-engine balance is amazing! After several track days I am convinced this is the best performance platform in the Porsche stable. And, I think the the new 911 RSR is the first nod to that fact. Of course the 911 RSR engine was moved to take advantage of better use of the GTE aero rules but I think this change will lead to possibly another mid-engine Porsche that slots into the Ferrari/Lambo fighter spot.
Do it, you won't regret it!
The mid-engine balance is amazing! After several track days I am convinced this is the best performance platform in the Porsche stable. And, I think the the new 911 RSR is the first nod to that fact. Of course the 911 RSR engine was moved to take advantage of better use of the GTE aero rules but I think this change will lead to possibly another mid-engine Porsche that slots into the Ferrari/Lambo fighter spot.
Do it, you won't regret it!
01-02-2017, 06:06 PM
#73
Three Wheelin'
For the street, Spyder is probably the most exciting model in the lineup.
01-05-2017, 02:32 PM
#74
Instructor
Like somebody said, Porsche has been silently tweaking their EPS. On my 2016 GTS with the German steering (PS+), it's absolutely perfect IMO. Same feel as the best hydraulic racks I've sampled (it's the same rack-and-pinion system, after all), weighted perfectly, and as quick as I want it, with a still precise on-center feel. Porsche finally got it right IMO. And much more reliable as well. No complaints for me, at least on this 2016.
.
01-05-2017, 11:21 PM
#75
The German steering is PS+ here; don't believe there's a choice in Germany, as far as I know. For some reason, the steering calibration was changed for the US market, but don't know the specifics (supposedly only at slow speeds), or why. I was told the above by a dealer owner, and I've seen it mentioned on forums as well, so I believe it to be true. My steering is not light at all, so wouldn't be happy with it any harder than it already is. It feels perfect to me at all speeds (on the firm side), and actually better than the hydraulic Caymans I remember. Hope this helps.