porsches to buy now
07-29-2013, 10:32 AM
#31
Rennlist Member
Been following along here in preparation to get back into the line.
I gotta ask though, is anyone really looking to purchase a 968 as an investment vehicle? A 20-year old car, with probably a lot of miles already? To what, put it in the garage and not drive it? I can understand if you've already got one, and want to keep it all pristine. But unless that kind of person finds a buyer who wants to do the same, then expect to sell it for what a driver will pay.
To me it's academic though. I've read that having a great car and not driving it in order to preserve its value is like having a supermodel wife and not having sex with her, which only benefits her next husband (or the guy she's cheating with). I don't buy cars to sell, I buy cars to drive. So I agree with the analogy.
-V
I gotta ask though, is anyone really looking to purchase a 968 as an investment vehicle? A 20-year old car, with probably a lot of miles already? To what, put it in the garage and not drive it? I can understand if you've already got one, and want to keep it all pristine. But unless that kind of person finds a buyer who wants to do the same, then expect to sell it for what a driver will pay.
To me it's academic though. I've read that having a great car and not driving it in order to preserve its value is like having a supermodel wife and not having sex with her, which only benefits her next husband (or the guy she's cheating with). I don't buy cars to sell, I buy cars to drive. So I agree with the analogy.
-V
I did 4 events with my 968s this year so far and organized the 968 get together in Portsmouth last May. I promote all PCA events as the 968 register advocate. I would have loved to see more 968s turn up. Drive em' !!!
07-29-2013, 10:40 AM
#32
Shameful Thread Killer
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Thinking I could outsmart the market, when the American muscle cars started going up like a rocket, I figured I would get a true US muscle car, and just save it and wait for the cash machine to crank up. My choice was a 1963 Studebaker Avanti. I have the rare supercharged model with BW auto and a locker rear end. The were built to compete with the Corvette of the day, but it never really worked out for Studebaker. All the elements are there, the car is a hot driver, it's rare, it's fiberglass bodied, they are good looking if a bit futuristic, and they aren't made anymore. So - where's my 300% appreciation? The prices have held steady and climbed a bit but nothing like the early 70s Cuda or the same Mustangs. I want my price runup too!
07-29-2013, 11:17 AM
#33
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a gentleman in my town restored 4 Hemi's. he had a barn and kids from the tech school helping him with the body work (no plastic). he sent the engines out to be honed, turned the wrenches, etc. he sold 2 of them in the mid-2000s and now spends his winters in the islands partying with Mick and the Stones.
on the 968s, it's just amazing what happened to the prices between the late summer 2007, and the end of 2008. $22 k cars became $14 k cars. and $16 k cars became $10 k cars.
on the 968s, it's just amazing what happened to the prices between the late summer 2007, and the end of 2008. $22 k cars became $14 k cars. and $16 k cars became $10 k cars.
07-29-2013, 02:07 PM
#34
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09-26-2013, 02:37 AM
#35
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It's not just demographics. Article in c and d about why doesn't Johnny drive covers it. 20yr old without a license. More into iPod and Xbox. In the 80's there were some like that, but they were the exception. Now it's the opposite.
Fuel injection while a wonderful thing has taken the tuner out of most people. No one needs to lift a hood anymore. Remember dumb girls in the 70's and 80's? I would be willing to bet they know more about cars than most 16-20 yr old males (maybe in more urban centres where busses and transit take you everywhere). Cars barely break down anymore and no one needs to tune anything anymore. Less knowledge of the workings is less enthusiasts. Less enthusiasts, is less demand. Barrett Jackson is mostly full of guys that look like skipper or someone from occ. guys with money to burn and who know cars or know what they lusted after back in the day. Everyone had a house with a yard and a garage just like leave it to beaver. Nowadays there are a lot of people in condos where you are not even allowed to work on your own car or get a fine. Where I live, there is a bylaw for washing your own car in the driveway. This is reducing the future number of people we will be bidding against when we go to Barrett in 10 yrs or 15 yrs. bidding on a 968 cs for 100k. they will be at the iPhone and Xbox Barrett Jackson. No, no they won't.
Also, as mentioned above, fuel injection and cars have made tuning way harder. Old days you had a ton of options for more power. While there are a lot of options now, every year more and more tuner companies are going away, contrary to Sema's constant boast of how big the market is. And manufacturers aren't making it easier either. Some smart ones are, but cars are pretty strung out now, not leaving much, but also, vettes and pcars have way over 400 hp now also. I am not talking about the 500-800hp guys more like average joe guys.
What's funny is that while this enthusiast crowd was young, and active in the 80's, cars weren't really that fast. Dusters and mustangs barely broke into the 12's at our local track. Now a 100% street car that will start 95% of the time and idle in traffic and maybe blow cold ac will or could also maybe do 9's. ok, maybe too optimistic, but that Nissan gtr can do 11's until something expensive breaks.
Which brings me to the last point. I will stop soon I swear. Costs are up and freedom is limited now. But somewhat in a good way. I used to do the dumbest stuff on the road. Now, kids can't or they would go to jail, get huge insurance increases, lose license, etc. I heard stories of local racers being able to call up the track owner and saying I want to do some laps, can I owe you 20 or zero and I will catch you next time? They could lap for hours. Now it's 200 for 20 on, 20 off and an afternoon. But the lap times are way faster I bet. However in our city, they shut the racetrack down, and won't have another nearby is 3 hours or 2-3 years if we are lucky. Some of you guys with 3 tracks in 3 hours please understand how lucky you are. The next closest one is 12 hours away. Insurance for kids around here is 5k /yr, 80's was about 500. Min wage was 3 or so, now is 10, but really $15. Funny part is cars haven't really gone up, it's all the stuff around them that have.
Fuel injection while a wonderful thing has taken the tuner out of most people. No one needs to lift a hood anymore. Remember dumb girls in the 70's and 80's? I would be willing to bet they know more about cars than most 16-20 yr old males (maybe in more urban centres where busses and transit take you everywhere). Cars barely break down anymore and no one needs to tune anything anymore. Less knowledge of the workings is less enthusiasts. Less enthusiasts, is less demand. Barrett Jackson is mostly full of guys that look like skipper or someone from occ. guys with money to burn and who know cars or know what they lusted after back in the day. Everyone had a house with a yard and a garage just like leave it to beaver. Nowadays there are a lot of people in condos where you are not even allowed to work on your own car or get a fine. Where I live, there is a bylaw for washing your own car in the driveway. This is reducing the future number of people we will be bidding against when we go to Barrett in 10 yrs or 15 yrs. bidding on a 968 cs for 100k. they will be at the iPhone and Xbox Barrett Jackson. No, no they won't.
Also, as mentioned above, fuel injection and cars have made tuning way harder. Old days you had a ton of options for more power. While there are a lot of options now, every year more and more tuner companies are going away, contrary to Sema's constant boast of how big the market is. And manufacturers aren't making it easier either. Some smart ones are, but cars are pretty strung out now, not leaving much, but also, vettes and pcars have way over 400 hp now also. I am not talking about the 500-800hp guys more like average joe guys.
What's funny is that while this enthusiast crowd was young, and active in the 80's, cars weren't really that fast. Dusters and mustangs barely broke into the 12's at our local track. Now a 100% street car that will start 95% of the time and idle in traffic and maybe blow cold ac will or could also maybe do 9's. ok, maybe too optimistic, but that Nissan gtr can do 11's until something expensive breaks.
Which brings me to the last point. I will stop soon I swear. Costs are up and freedom is limited now. But somewhat in a good way. I used to do the dumbest stuff on the road. Now, kids can't or they would go to jail, get huge insurance increases, lose license, etc. I heard stories of local racers being able to call up the track owner and saying I want to do some laps, can I owe you 20 or zero and I will catch you next time? They could lap for hours. Now it's 200 for 20 on, 20 off and an afternoon. But the lap times are way faster I bet. However in our city, they shut the racetrack down, and won't have another nearby is 3 hours or 2-3 years if we are lucky. Some of you guys with 3 tracks in 3 hours please understand how lucky you are. The next closest one is 12 hours away. Insurance for kids around here is 5k /yr, 80's was about 500. Min wage was 3 or so, now is 10, but really $15. Funny part is cars haven't really gone up, it's all the stuff around them that have.
09-26-2013, 03:22 PM
#36
Three Wheelin'
The 968 has definitely appreciated nicely over the past couple years, especially for ones with documented maintenance and low mileage. How much higher they will go? I personally think they will begin to plateau, mainly due to getting close to used Boxster territory. Many will just opt for the newer car, except for collectors/enthusiasts like us. Now with that being said, for the 944, what appears to be slightly appreciating is the S2.
09-26-2013, 03:39 PM
#37
Rennlist Member
I don't think a 968 would be competing with Boxsters in the used car market. Very different cars. One was sold in great numbers while the other was a low production, hand made car (last of the breed). Boxsters have already depreciated below 968's in my opinion. This is not to take anything away from Boxsters. They are great cars. They just sold a lot of them, which waters down the market.
09-26-2013, 05:45 PM
#38
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It's not just demographics. Article in c and d about why doesn't Johnny drive covers it. 20yr old without a license. More into iPod and Xbox. In the 80's there were some like that, but they were the exception. Now it's the opposite.
Fuel injection while a wonderful thing has taken the tuner out of most people. No one needs to lift a hood anymore. Remember dumb girls in the 70's and 80's? I would be willing to bet they know more about cars than most 16-20 yr old males....
Fuel injection while a wonderful thing has taken the tuner out of most people. No one needs to lift a hood anymore. Remember dumb girls in the 70's and 80's? I would be willing to bet they know more about cars than most 16-20 yr old males....
I've posted this EXACT opinion a couple dozen times during the last 5 years.
people pm'd asking where to send gifts, cakes with nude dancing girls, etc.....
my crudest guess might be 15~20 car enthusiasts dying off for every new one entering the market.
those born into wealth will be trading a dozen antiques from the 30's and 40's for a muscle-car plaything or two, take the cars out - and total them....
DANGER Will Robinson; run from that car auction !
the mother of all crashes in collectible cars is coming !
09-26-2013, 05:55 PM
#39
Rennlist Member
09-26-2013, 07:02 PM
#41
Fuel injection while a wonderful thing has taken the tuner out of most people. No one needs to lift a hood anymore. Remember dumb girls in the 70's and 80's? I would be willing to bet they know more about cars than most 16-20 yr old males (maybe in more urban centres where busses and transit take you everywhere). Cars barely break down anymore and no one needs to tune anything anymore.
My friend grafted a 997 GT3 nose (fenders, bumper, headlights) onto a 2010 Cayman... and the computer FREAKED. The SIDE MARKER lights wouldn't work. A basic frickin side marker bulb... is tied into the CAN. The dash is throwing errors all over the place. Headlights don't work, turn signals don't work....
That's going to make it VERY difficult to become an enthusiast on your own. It won't be possible to pick up a car you lusted after as a kid that's maybe in need of some love (like most of us here did), and learn on it as you go.
10-03-2013, 12:04 AM
#43
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Mooney aircraft company made a strategic partnership with Porsche for them to develop the next gen engine for the Mooney 4 seat aircraft. There was an assumption that the Porsche flat 6 engine would be an easy conversion to aviation and provide better performance, range and climb capabilities.
By the time they were done, it was more costly than an aviation engine, used more fuel, went slower, and was a pain to maintain. Porsche poured millions into development, and lost most of it when the plane proved to be a pig.
It cost the pres of Porsche his job, and set back the auto line developments for a few years. You can google Mooney PFM for more info. A truly disastrous adventure. A primer on how not to run a business.
By the time they were done, it was more costly than an aviation engine, used more fuel, went slower, and was a pain to maintain. Porsche poured millions into development, and lost most of it when the plane proved to be a pig.
It cost the pres of Porsche his job, and set back the auto line developments for a few years. You can google Mooney PFM for more info. A truly disastrous adventure. A primer on how not to run a business.
Last edited by docmirror; 10-03-2013 at 11:09 AM.
10-03-2013, 12:20 PM
#44
Mooney aircraft company made a strategic partnership with Porsche for them to develop the next gen engine for the Mooney 4 seat aircraft. There was an assumption that the Porsche flat 6 engine would be an easy conversion to aviation and provide better performance, range and climb capabilities.
By the time they were done, it was more costly than an aviation engine, used more fuel, went slower, and was a pain to maintain. Porsche poured millions into development, and lost most of it when the plane proved to be a pig.
It cost the pres of Porsche his job, and set back the auto line developments for a few years. You can google Mooney PFM for more info. A truly disastrous adventure. A primer on how not to run a business.
By the time they were done, it was more costly than an aviation engine, used more fuel, went slower, and was a pain to maintain. Porsche poured millions into development, and lost most of it when the plane proved to be a pig.
It cost the pres of Porsche his job, and set back the auto line developments for a few years. You can google Mooney PFM for more info. A truly disastrous adventure. A primer on how not to run a business.
Good friend of mine is a huge airplane nut and is always trying to talk me into getting into flying. I always joke around that if I do, I'll buy a Porsche powered Mooney.
Guess maybe that wouldn't be a good idea after all...
