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Old 06-05-2011, 02:20 AM
  #31  
odurandina
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Default edited post.....

well, it very well might be.

i went back and made a few additions to this post....


The OP seems to trust Car and Driver about the timing system of a 968. lol.

fail.


in any case, i'll do my best here... if you watch the typical car chase on tv, it often isn't long before the poor despotic fool's engine blows up. if you get in the same car chase with a 968, the engine will run in spades while the tires burn down to the nubs and the rest of the car eventually falls apart. of course from your posts so far on this thread, it is already obvious that this explanation won't be good enough for you so i'll try to get a bit more specific..... you can run a 968 engine near the redline for tens of thousands of miles. if the 968 variocam could ever be bested, and it could actually be measured, it would probably be only one of the recent ricer engines from Japan. but, that shouldn't come as any great surprise since the Japanese automakers have been building 4 cylinder production engines for high output, reliabiltiy and fuel economy for over 50 years.

the majority of turbo 3.0 builds are completed using 951, 8 valve heads..... adding other 951 parts in the rebuild.... the engine management system of the 968 has plenty of versatility to facilitate proper tuning... after proper blueprinting, the inclusion of heavier duty connecting rods, pistons, etc, such a engine can be tuned safely to about 375 horsepower before you begin to beat a significant dent in the engine's service life...

examples? one engine i read about a while back on the 44 turbo forums had been done many years ago where they used a 968 block with crankshaft and pistons, machined the pistons to like, 8.5:1, added a 2.7 litre, 8v head, and high output H20 pump... then all the rest of the parts came from an S2 turbo car. then they added high output injectors and tuned boost to only about 300 hp and maybe, 350 ft-lbs of torque. the engine has well over 200 k miles on it and last time i heard it's still going strong. but it's not running variocam and 16 valves.

aftermarket tuners such as KMR Racing, Powerhuas Inc, have done 16 valve 968 turbo setups, and Powerhaus would be happy to sell you a 16 valve 3.0 turbo engine... it comes at considerable cost, but with proper engine blueprinting, can be built to at least 425 hp with good reliability. it can be tuned to much higher outputs to reach the 500 hp benchmark that you're lookng for... but with it, will come far-shorter, less dependable service life. i'm not 100% sure if the Powerhous guys keep the variocam timing system for such a setup, but i believe they do.

you can always call them and ask. as far as your dislike for the variocam, unfortunately, you are considerably misinformed, and have had your learning curve highly polluted by a group of automobile writers, who had zero long term data by which to go by at the time of their writing... in this particular instance, they simply got it wrong. or to put it more directly, in hindsight, they didn't know what the hell they were talking about..... the variocam engine probably has about the fewest engine failures of ANY Porsche engine i have ever heard of, or any of the 4 cylinder engines that come under great stress in a sports car context. ask the guys (like Mike Lindsay or Chris White) who've built many of them....

in stock trim, i've heard of 1; ONE 968 lower end failure in all the time i've read about, seen or learned about other peoples cars, or any and all 968s i've seen for sale. in my case, you'd be talking about several hundreds of examples, as i roved on Cars.com, Autotrader, do national Craigslist searches, over several years etc.... in the sports car context, i think that's fairly incredible. you can also talk to guys like Eric Krause, and many others that that have raced the 3.0s for years, and they won't tell you any different.

550 rear wheel horsepower? (post #10) show me any four cylinder engine that's running for a long time with anywhere near that kind of power.... that would be like the equivalent of an LS engine going to 1,100~1,200 hp. not very realistic in my opinion. you'd be spending tens of thousands of dollars to be building a V8 engine like that... but the guys at Powerhaus can build you a 425~500 horsepower, 16 valve, 3.0 engine.... and probably be doing that running variocam.


as for the 968 not running wide tires. the car came detuned from the factory so that it's handling wouldn't completely blow the doors off their flagship models (it did anyway)... in testing, the 968 knotted a 'tie' with the Ferrari F-50 on the skidpad as 1 of the world's 2 best handling cars in 1993 (touched on dozens of times on this forum). i run 255-35-18s on 8.5" wheels in the front and 285-35-18s on 10" wheels in the rear with no spacers on just a decent set of aftermarket wheels. the handling is even better than the old setup that came with the car... as for no options being available, i've re-done the lower front valence of my car, and i'll soon add a modded version of a GT2 splitter good for about 60 lbs of downforce at 180 mph.... i'll be doing all the finish work later this month and then, post more photos. here's the work progress so far.....

https://rennlist.com/forums/968-foru...lastics-2.html


if you do want a really fast car w/ a turbo, perhaps a more realistic goal of about 450 hp (flywheel) 3.0 dropped into a stripped down, 951 or 968 with some fiberglass body pieces would be a better route. in the case of the 968, it's been proven over and over that body kits simply aren't necessary.

good luck.


.

Last edited by odurandina; 06-05-2011 at 02:53 AM.
Old 06-05-2011, 02:35 AM
  #32  
ernie9468
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Originally Posted by thirdgenbird
its not often you see a thread get locked on rennlist
Agee with you since we are usually peaceful guys around here with most members trying to help each other and insulting one another is not our priority never was & never will be,but once in a while a rotten apple come by and if we don't defend each other who will .Not only this thread should be lock but I suggest that one of the moderator take a serious look at __Texas _951.
Old 06-05-2011, 02:36 AM
  #33  
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my realistic dream is to transplant a stock low milage 968 drivetrain into my 924s
Old 06-05-2011, 02:38 AM
  #34  
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Originally Posted by odurandina
well, it sure is about to be....

i went back and made some additions to this post....


The OP seems to trust Car and Driver about the timing system of a 968.

fail.

in any case, i'll do my best here... if you watch the typical car chase on tv, it often isn't long before the poor despotic fool's engine blows up. if you get in the same car chase with a 968, the engine will survive, in spades while the tires burn down to the nubs, and the rest of the car falls apart. of course from your posts so far on this thread, it is already obvious, that this explanation won't be good enough for you so i'll try to get a bit more specific..... you can run a 968 engine near the redline for tens of thousands of miles. in my opinion, if the 968 variocam has ever been bested, and it could actually be measured, it would probably be one of the recent, ricer engines from Japan. but, that shouldn't come as any great surprise since they've been building 4 cylinder production engines for high output and fuel economy for over 50 years.

the majority of turbo 3.0 builds are completed using 951, 8 valve heads..... adding other 951 parts in the rebuild.... the engine management system of the 968 has plenty of versatility to facilitate proper tuning... in my opinion, after proper blueprinting, the inclusion of heavier duty connecting rods, pistons, etc, such a engine can be tuned safely to about 375 horsepower before you're putting a significant dent in the engine's service life...

examples? one engine i read about a while back on the 44 turbo forums had been done many years ago where they used a 968 block with crankshaft and pistons, machined the pistons to like, 8.5:1, added a 2.7 litre, 8v head, and high output H20 pump... then all the rest of the parts came from an S2 turbo car. then they added high output injectors and tuned boost to only about 300 hp and maybe, 350 ft-lbs of torque. the engine has well over 200 k miles on it and last time i heard it's still going strong. but it's not running variocam and 16 valves.

aftermarket tuners such as KMR Racing, Powerhuas Inc, have done 16 valve 968 turbo setups, and Powerhaus would be happy to sell you a 16 valve 3.0 turbo engine... it comes at considerable cost, but with proper engine blueprinting, can be built to at least 425 hp with good reliability. it can be tuned to much higher outputs to reach the 500 hp benchmark that you're lookng for... but with it, will come far-shorter, less dependable service life. i'm not 100% sure if the Powerhous guys keep the variocam timing system for such a setup, but i believe they do.

you can always call them and ask. as far as your dislike for the variocam, unfortunately, you are considerably misinformed, and have had your learning curve and highly polluted by a group of automobile writers, who had no long-term data by which to go by at the time of their posting... in this particular instance, they simply got it wrong. or to put it more directly, in hindsight, they didn't know what the hell they were talking about..... the variocam engine probably has about the fewest engine failures of ANY Porsche engine i have ever heard of... or for that matter, any of the 4 cylinder engines that come under great stress in a sports car context that i have ever heard of. if ask the guys (like Mike Lindsay or Chris White) who've built many of them....

in stock trim, i've heard of 1; ONE 968 lower end failure in all the time i've read about, seen or learned about other peoples cars, or any and all 968s i've seen for sale. in my case, you'd be talking about several hundreds of examples, as i roved on Cars.com, Autotrader, do national Craigslist searches, over several years etc.... in the sports car context, i think that's fairly incredible. you can also talk to guys like Eric Krause, and many others that that have raced the 3.0s for years, and they won't tell you any different.

550 rear wheel horsepower? (post #10) show me any four cylinder engine that's running for a long time with anywhere near that kind of power.... that would be like the equivalent of an LS engine going to 1,100~1,200 hp. not very realistic in my opinion. you'd be spending tens of thousands of dollars to be building a V8 engine like that... but the guys at Powerhaus can build you a 425~500 horsepower, 16 valve, 3.0 engine.... and probably be doing that running variocam.


as for the 968 not running wide tires. the car came detuned from the factory so that it's handling wouldn't completely blow the doors off their flagship models (it did anyway)... in testing, the 968 knotted a 'tie' with the Ferrari F-50 on the skidpad as 1 of the world's 2 best handling cars in 1993 (touched on dozens of times on this forum). i run 255-35-18s on 8.5" wheels in the front and 285-35-18s on 10" wheels in the rear with no spacers on just a decent set of aftermarket wheels. the handling is even better than the old setup that came with the car... as for no options being available, i've re-done the lower front valence of my car, and i'll soon add a modded version of a GT2 splitter good for about 60 lbs of downforce at 180 mph.... i'll be doing all the finish work later this month and then, post more photos. here's the work progress so far.....

https://rennlist.com/forums/968-foru...lastics-2.html


if you do want a really fast car w/ a turbo, perhaps a more realistic goal of about 450 horsepower at the flywheel, with a very light, stripped down, 951 or 968 with some fiberglass body pieces would be a better route. in the case of the 968, it's been proven over and over that body kits simply aren't necessary.

good luck.
Very informative. That's the kind of info I was initially soliciting.
Old 06-05-2011, 02:42 AM
  #35  
Texas_951
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Originally Posted by ernie9468
Agee with you since we are usually peaceful guys around here with most members trying to help each other and insulting one another is not our priority never was & never will be,but once in a while a rotten apple come by and if we don't defend each other who will .Not only this thread should be lock but I suggest that one of the moderator take a serious look at __Texas _951.
Read the history of this thread guy, you told me to go eff myself 1st, and I didn't even take offense to that.

You're just like a puny gangbanger who can't defend himself, so he joins a gang so he can try to feel protected. Grow a pair.
Old 06-05-2011, 02:48 AM
  #36  
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lets talk about the 968. it really is an under appreciated car.
Old 06-05-2011, 02:57 AM
  #37  
Texas_951
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Originally Posted by ernie9468
Agee with you since we are usually peaceful guys around here with most members trying to help each other and insulting one another is not our priority never was & never will be,but once in a while a rotten apple come by and if we don't defend each other who will .Not only this thread should be lock but I suggest that one of the moderator take a serious look at __Texas _951.
Wow, you just cant get your vernacular quite right... This is what you sound like...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4zqCA...ature=youtu.behttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ax9Qf...ature=youtu.behttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bBynh...ature=youtu.be
or
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H31-LnBwe50
Old 06-05-2011, 03:01 AM
  #38  
odurandina
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Mr. Texas,

i think you've quite mis-judged Ernie. he knows a hell of a lot about these cars. you could make egg salad on any metal surface of his car, inside or outside including the engine bay and serve it to your kids (quite a feat for a P-car). he offers the youngsters on the '44 forums all kinds of help and his opinions sound like they come from a lot of experience. he's an all-around good guy who gets along extremely well with everybody.

you won't make any friends here or with the moderators by bashing him.... if anything, i'm the resident wise-*** around here. just have a look at my oilwar threads telling all the old timers to run thinner, high tech oils. see my Fema and Fukushima threads, (with over 1000 posts each they're 2 of the 3 largest discussion threads in the history of Rennlist OT full of the good, the bad and ugly). very entertaining. this isn't the place for that kind of stuff. no thanks to me, but the other guys make this place one of the best car forums in existence anywhere. appologize and move on.



.
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Last edited by odurandina; 06-05-2011 at 03:39 AM.
Old 06-05-2011, 03:14 AM
  #39  
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Originally Posted by thirdgenbird
lets talk about the 968. it really is an under appreciated car.
Yes one of the best Porsche ever built and the most under appreciated of them all ,but since they were built in such low numbers peoples don't realise what they are.I'm a P car owner since the 70s and has yet to experience a Porsche which is so pleasurable to drive around. Oh! agree they are by no mean a Super Car with mega HP but who really need all that horsepower.If well taking care off and not abuse that 3.0 ltr will last you quiet a while.
Old 06-05-2011, 03:18 AM
  #40  
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i want to drive a 968 so much.
Old 06-05-2011, 03:34 AM
  #41  
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so what is it that makes a 968 so reliable exactly (what parts in the block have superior engineering, and what's superior about the parts)?

I do like the pop up headlights, they're very "Porsche".

BTW, I don't feel the need for an apology, but he can do what he does, and I'll do me. We can leave it at that and move on.

Last edited by Texas_951; 06-06-2011 at 12:01 AM.
Old 06-05-2011, 03:37 AM
  #42  
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Originally Posted by Texas_951

You're just like a puny gangbanger who can't defend himself, so he joins a gang so he can try to feel protected. Grow a pair.
BTW I'm 66 years old & still don't need nobody to defend me ,for your infos I've learn to grow a pair bigger then your head in boxing rings (Golden Glove) Migth have been a while back but still got the touch beleive me.And no matter what you throw at me I learn never to give up that how I won 13 off them 14 figths ,so don't expect a white flag from me young man that will never happen. And good luck with your project this will be my last reply to you.
Old 06-05-2011, 03:51 AM
  #43  
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Originally Posted by ernie9468
BTW I'm 66 years old & still don't need nobody to defend me ,for your infos I've learn to grow a pair bigger then your head in boxing rings (Golden Glove) Migth have been a while back but still got the touch beleive me.And no matter what you throw at me I learn never to give up that how I won 13 off them 14 figths ,so don't expect a white flag from me young man that will never happen. And good luck with your project this will be my last reply to you.
Thats nice that you did golden gloves, nice place to start.
Maybe you've heard of Brazilian Top Team? Murillo Bustamante, UFC Champ? Well if you're into mixed martial arts at all, I'm sure you have. We do Brazilian Jiu Jitsu, Muay Thai, Boxing (Our coach is the former Jesse James Leija coach), Wrestling ect... As you may or may not know, most real fights start standing but end up on the ground at some point.
Since your French Canadian, I'm sure your familiar with Georges Saint Pierre. He trains quite a bit with Brazilian Top Team in Canada. FWIW, people say they will never give up, but everybody taps out at some point in their career. You're not learning if you haven't sparred with someone better that makes you tap.
Likewise, good luck with your car.
Old 06-05-2011, 05:37 AM
  #44  
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Originally Posted by Texas_951
so what is it that makes a 968 so reliable exactly (what parts in the block have superior engineering, and what's superior about the parts)?
It's a Porsche.

They build cars a certain way, expect them to be driven a certain way, and they respond best when maintained a certain way (by the book). They are as reliable as any vehicle on the road when looked after correctly.

BUT: While a Viper is a way cool car, it is completely different in concept and execution to a 968. You may not like the switch. How about a 968 with a LS motor in it? Texas Performance Concepts http://www.texasperformanceconcepts.com/ could be worth a call.


Cheers,
Mike
Old 06-06-2011, 12:17 PM
  #45  
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I don’t wander over to this part of Rennlist very often but some body clued me in on the thread. I’ll skip over the ‘entertainment’ and get back to the original questions. Yes, there are a number of Turbo variocam 3.0 and 3.1 liters running around – oddly enough you will find most of them in 944 turbo bodies!
In reality the ‘variocam’ system is pretty crude, it is not a fully variable cam positioner – it is an ‘on/off’ system that changes the intake cam position by a lot. I prefer using a modified twin cam drive that uses two adjustable cam gears to get the optimum cam timing for the turbo confirmation. That being said – the stock cam timing is not that bad for a turbo set up – ‘Duke’ over on the 944 turbo list has a well tuned version using the stock cam configuration.

I am just finishing up a 3.0 16v turbo for my 968 cab….just need to find some spare time to install it!

Here are a couple of examples of some of my work in action - The first one made 594hp at 1 bar





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