Re-Paint Dilemma: What would you do? (LONG)
01-27-2008, 09:36 PM
#1
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Re-Paint Dilemma: What would you do? (LONG)
STATEMENT: You can always find 968 mechanical parts for replacement of defective pieces but a pristine body with ORIGINAL paint is hard to find. How many 968s still have factory paint, no bondo, are driven regularly, and still have paint and body that are dent-free and can score at least a 9 or 10 on its body? (10 being like new).
THE MARKET: Given the chance, most discriminate (i.e., "****") buyers prefer to buy a car with original paint since original Porsches came with good and hard paint to begin with. Unfortunately, our cars are getting to the age that the original paint shows all the warts, door dents, dings, whether it's been in a wreck or not, acid rain, and so on. Others have been repainted but the paint application quality varies a lot and “repaints” can hide imperfections.
THE REALITY: All cars that are driven are going to have small chips out of the paint on the front bumper and just in front of the rear fenders, the mirror faces, door dents, small dings, maybe some corrosion and/or some paint fading, etc. These may be absolute excellent cars, but are not "perfect" like many owners aspire to own (e.g., my 968 in the foto below has stock paint with a few simple warts and dings...but interior, engine and drivetrain are practically perfect....would it warrent repainted?). This is part of the dilemma of having original paint. The fact is that, all but for museum cars and a few garage queens, few 968s fall into the pristine or near-perfect category. Cars whose paint has been allowed to deteriorate may point to mechanical issues that have been neglected.
FACT? Probably most 968 owners would rather have good solid cars with excellent mechanicals AND (AS WELL) nice, new-thick, mirror-like, to-die-for, thick near-concurs paint (otherwise why would we spend so much time waxing and polishing our rigs?)
ASSERTION 1: You can't have your cake and eat it too. Cars that are pristine and have new-looking original paint will likely continue to be garage queens and used infrequently. Cars will less-than-perfect-paint are more apt to be daily drivers and enjoyed more on the road/track.
ASSERTION 2: Many 968s may indeed look much better with well executed new paint jobs but this may affect sales value when compared to cars with original paint. Good condition, original paint cars can bring more money.
ASSERTION 3: Many 968s whose bodies have been dinged very much, had a fender bender, faded, paint, etc. are better off with new paint. This presents challenges:
A: Excellent, restored-to-original, professionally applied paint requires that body panels be removed, doors removed, glass taken out, etc. Good paint jobs can cost anywhere from $6K to $12 (or double this!). Depending on the condition of the rest of the car, this is money that probably may not be recouped in a sale. But these well-done repainted cars admittedly are beautiful.
B: As mentioned, good paint jobs are hard to come by these days unless you pay high dollar and not every shop is used to working on anything but Hondas, Ford Focuses, etc. The chances of getting good, reasonably-priced paint from run-of-the-mill body shops varies. The chances of you recouping the cost of the paint job are questionable, or getting a great deal on a great paint job (Hint: Marry someone whose father owns a paint shop or photograph them making out with the secretary).
C: DIY paint jobs usually look like they weren’t done in a professional paint booth, will likely have orange peel, runs, thin spots, fish eyes, dust bunny residue, hairs, etc. It may look good if you don’t look close and may be well worth the effort on a car that’s not tops in interior, etc. I’ve painted about a dozen cars myself and had about that many done by professionals….my jobs look “OK” to almost good….the outsourced jobs looked outstanding! (I used Street Rod paint shops). If you don’t paint the door jams, and similar places, it’s difficult to make them look good.
D: Maaco? If you sand, prime, sand, reprime, sand, straighten, prime, sand with 600 grit again, and prep the body to perfection (yourself) before taking it in to get sprayed, the job may be passable. Good prep is not learned on your first paint job. What looks “perfect” before applying paint, often looks not-so-good after sprayed. The last rig I personally painted, just the cost of the good quality two-part paint, clearcoat, thinners, etc. itself cost me more than what some complete Maaco or neighborhood “Kwik-Spray” paint jobs would cost. If you’re trying to “salvage” an average hi-mile, hi-wear 968 that may not be worth putting much money into in, and you want to drive it ‘till it drops, this may be the best choice. Car dealerships do this all the time since a lot of people judge a car by how shiney the paint is.
QUESTION: If you have a 968 that has an absolutely excellent interior, all the instruments work, and it’s absolutely solid mechanically and has a great drive train….. but has paint that’s scores a 7 or 8 out of 10, would you keep it in the original paint (with those advantages) or do a $6K-$8K re-paint job that would well complement the rest of the car? (with these advantages)?
What are your thoughts? What's wrong with the above reasoning?
H2
THE MARKET: Given the chance, most discriminate (i.e., "****") buyers prefer to buy a car with original paint since original Porsches came with good and hard paint to begin with. Unfortunately, our cars are getting to the age that the original paint shows all the warts, door dents, dings, whether it's been in a wreck or not, acid rain, and so on. Others have been repainted but the paint application quality varies a lot and “repaints” can hide imperfections.
THE REALITY: All cars that are driven are going to have small chips out of the paint on the front bumper and just in front of the rear fenders, the mirror faces, door dents, small dings, maybe some corrosion and/or some paint fading, etc. These may be absolute excellent cars, but are not "perfect" like many owners aspire to own (e.g., my 968 in the foto below has stock paint with a few simple warts and dings...but interior, engine and drivetrain are practically perfect....would it warrent repainted?). This is part of the dilemma of having original paint. The fact is that, all but for museum cars and a few garage queens, few 968s fall into the pristine or near-perfect category. Cars whose paint has been allowed to deteriorate may point to mechanical issues that have been neglected.
FACT? Probably most 968 owners would rather have good solid cars with excellent mechanicals AND (AS WELL) nice, new-thick, mirror-like, to-die-for, thick near-concurs paint (otherwise why would we spend so much time waxing and polishing our rigs?)
ASSERTION 1: You can't have your cake and eat it too. Cars that are pristine and have new-looking original paint will likely continue to be garage queens and used infrequently. Cars will less-than-perfect-paint are more apt to be daily drivers and enjoyed more on the road/track.
ASSERTION 2: Many 968s may indeed look much better with well executed new paint jobs but this may affect sales value when compared to cars with original paint. Good condition, original paint cars can bring more money.
ASSERTION 3: Many 968s whose bodies have been dinged very much, had a fender bender, faded, paint, etc. are better off with new paint. This presents challenges:
A: Excellent, restored-to-original, professionally applied paint requires that body panels be removed, doors removed, glass taken out, etc. Good paint jobs can cost anywhere from $6K to $12 (or double this!). Depending on the condition of the rest of the car, this is money that probably may not be recouped in a sale. But these well-done repainted cars admittedly are beautiful.
B: As mentioned, good paint jobs are hard to come by these days unless you pay high dollar and not every shop is used to working on anything but Hondas, Ford Focuses, etc. The chances of getting good, reasonably-priced paint from run-of-the-mill body shops varies. The chances of you recouping the cost of the paint job are questionable, or getting a great deal on a great paint job (Hint: Marry someone whose father owns a paint shop or photograph them making out with the secretary).
C: DIY paint jobs usually look like they weren’t done in a professional paint booth, will likely have orange peel, runs, thin spots, fish eyes, dust bunny residue, hairs, etc. It may look good if you don’t look close and may be well worth the effort on a car that’s not tops in interior, etc. I’ve painted about a dozen cars myself and had about that many done by professionals….my jobs look “OK” to almost good….the outsourced jobs looked outstanding! (I used Street Rod paint shops). If you don’t paint the door jams, and similar places, it’s difficult to make them look good.
D: Maaco? If you sand, prime, sand, reprime, sand, straighten, prime, sand with 600 grit again, and prep the body to perfection (yourself) before taking it in to get sprayed, the job may be passable. Good prep is not learned on your first paint job. What looks “perfect” before applying paint, often looks not-so-good after sprayed. The last rig I personally painted, just the cost of the good quality two-part paint, clearcoat, thinners, etc. itself cost me more than what some complete Maaco or neighborhood “Kwik-Spray” paint jobs would cost. If you’re trying to “salvage” an average hi-mile, hi-wear 968 that may not be worth putting much money into in, and you want to drive it ‘till it drops, this may be the best choice. Car dealerships do this all the time since a lot of people judge a car by how shiney the paint is.
QUESTION: If you have a 968 that has an absolutely excellent interior, all the instruments work, and it’s absolutely solid mechanically and has a great drive train….. but has paint that’s scores a 7 or 8 out of 10, would you keep it in the original paint (with those advantages) or do a $6K-$8K re-paint job that would well complement the rest of the car? (with these advantages)?
What are your thoughts? What's wrong with the above reasoning?
H2
01-27-2008, 10:13 PM
#3
Happily Amused
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I bought my cars to drive them and I can think of a lot of other things to do with $6k+ rather than paint. By the way places that paint fords hondas, yugos, etc can do great work on a Porsche if they do great work on those brands. As for buyers looking for original paint, i could care less if the repaint is good. I also do not care about if a fender was repaired or replaced if the job was done well.
01-27-2008, 10:13 PM
#4
Race Car
Yeah paint jobs are extremely expensive and don't really do anything for the value of your Porsche IMO. Mileage factors into the value equation a whole lot more but I wouldn't worry about completely original paint unless you have a 20k mile 968 that you're trying to get top $ for. Besides, there are very few shoppers looking for low-mile 968's w/ original paint who are willing to pay a premium, so I'd not worry too much about it. 
What's most important is whether YOU are happy w/ the car. You can try having a very nice detail job done first to see how your paint really rates from 1-10. If you still aren't satisfied then have some parts re-painted that encounter the most damage like front bumper, side mirror housings, door handles and rocker panels. This should turn out really nice plus virtually everyone will understand/appreciate your decision to repaint these parts when it comes time to sell [if that's your concern]. You can also replace weather stripping in those areas fairly inexpensively and with very nice results.
What's most important is whether YOU are happy w/ the car. You can try having a very nice detail job done first to see how your paint really rates from 1-10. If you still aren't satisfied then have some parts re-painted that encounter the most damage like front bumper, side mirror housings, door handles and rocker panels. This should turn out really nice plus virtually everyone will understand/appreciate your decision to repaint these parts when it comes time to sell [if that's your concern]. You can also replace weather stripping in those areas fairly inexpensively and with very nice results.
01-27-2008, 10:58 PM
#5
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All I read was the "QUESTION" part.
$6000!? You can sell your car, put 6k on top of that, and get something with lower mileage and better paint. Or $6k can get you a SFR supercharger or a turbo conversion. Or buy some savings bonds
.
Just not worth it. These cars are meant to be driven, so just drive it and be happy that the car is serving you so well. 7 out of 10 paint is still very good. Don't think about it too much.
$6000!? You can sell your car, put 6k on top of that, and get something with lower mileage and better paint. Or $6k can get you a SFR supercharger or a turbo conversion. Or buy some savings bonds
.Just not worth it. These cars are meant to be driven, so just drive it and be happy that the car is serving you so well. 7 out of 10 paint is still very good. Don't think about it too much.
01-28-2008, 08:14 AM
#6
On the Radar
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I bought my cars to drive them and I can think of a lot of other things to do with $6k+ rather than paint. By the way places that paint fords hondas, yugos, etc can do great work on a Porsche if they do great work on those brands. As for buyers looking for original paint, i could care less if the repaint is good. I also do not care about if a fender was repaired or replaced if the job was done well.
01-28-2008, 08:35 AM
#7
Three Wheelin'
Harvey,
Any car with original paint will have have some "warts" etc., but in my mind original paint is worth it. As a detailer, I can assure you that original paint is better to work with than a repant, and repaints always chip so much easier that the warts return at a rapid rate.
My red coupe was all original...had some chips and nicks, but I wouldn't have painted that car in a million years. Some wetsanding and a LOT of polishing and the paint was as good as a $5k repaint, and it was harder and of course, still original.
Steve
Any car with original paint will have have some "warts" etc., but in my mind original paint is worth it. As a detailer, I can assure you that original paint is better to work with than a repant, and repaints always chip so much easier that the warts return at a rapid rate.
My red coupe was all original...had some chips and nicks, but I wouldn't have painted that car in a million years. Some wetsanding and a LOT of polishing and the paint was as good as a $5k repaint, and it was harder and of course, still original.
Steve
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01-28-2008, 04:41 PM
#9
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What grit sanpaper did you use? Did you start with 600 and go finer? I mostly have microscratches and a few chips,. Is clay bar worth the trouble?
H2
01-28-2008, 06:18 PM
#10
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I would say if you are happy with your car as is do not do it. If your paint is a 7 out of 10 and it's a driver, again do not do it. BUT I feel there are many ways to get this done if you are willing to do the work.
I am in the middle of a repaint. My car had it's fair share of chips and when it came time to redo the top I made the decision to go for it. I also had a PO replace a fender that had faded a different to a light shade of pink. This never showed on a car fax and he said it had scratched up by a lawn mower so it was repaired...
That being said, cars with high milage say 80K plus are not going to benifit in value by a good paint, they will simply resale faster. A lower milage car may.
My 95 only has 65K on it and is perfect other than paint cond. I would not be able to resell it for the average 14-16K that a higher mileage say 100K car with #7 paint. So we stripped the car and went for it.
You can save $$$$. I removed all the body components and had them painted seperate so there were no tape marks, I also removed all the glass, molding, door handles etc and delivered the car to the shop in this condition. They prepped and sprayed and at if I remember correct I am only into the resto for 3K or so.. You have options, find a shop with a good paint booth with a good filter system and work with them. The discount shops do not tape up the engine compartment, door panels and overspray will find its way where you do not want it- Remember to tape up the holes of anything you take off!!
I posted many threads on my resto progress with picks. With it done right I feel not only proud to drive the car again but happy it's worth closer to top dollar IMHO
GOOD LUCK and shop around....Mike
I am in the middle of a repaint. My car had it's fair share of chips and when it came time to redo the top I made the decision to go for it. I also had a PO replace a fender that had faded a different to a light shade of pink. This never showed on a car fax and he said it had scratched up by a lawn mower so it was repaired...
That being said, cars with high milage say 80K plus are not going to benifit in value by a good paint, they will simply resale faster. A lower milage car may.
My 95 only has 65K on it and is perfect other than paint cond. I would not be able to resell it for the average 14-16K that a higher mileage say 100K car with #7 paint. So we stripped the car and went for it.
You can save $$$$. I removed all the body components and had them painted seperate so there were no tape marks, I also removed all the glass, molding, door handles etc and delivered the car to the shop in this condition. They prepped and sprayed and at if I remember correct I am only into the resto for 3K or so.. You have options, find a shop with a good paint booth with a good filter system and work with them. The discount shops do not tape up the engine compartment, door panels and overspray will find its way where you do not want it- Remember to tape up the holes of anything you take off!!
I posted many threads on my resto progress with picks. With it done right I feel not only proud to drive the car again but happy it's worth closer to top dollar IMHO
GOOD LUCK and shop around....Mike
01-28-2008, 06:59 PM
#11
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Harvey,
Any car with original paint will have have some "warts" etc., but in my mind original paint is worth it. As a detailer, I can assure you that original paint is better to work with than a repant, and repaints always chip so much easier that the warts return at a rapid rate.
My red coupe was all original...had some chips and nicks, but I wouldn't have painted that car in a million years. Some wetsanding and a LOT of polishing and the paint was as good as a $5k repaint, and it was harder and of course, still original.
Steve
Any car with original paint will have have some "warts" etc., but in my mind original paint is worth it. As a detailer, I can assure you that original paint is better to work with than a repant, and repaints always chip so much easier that the warts return at a rapid rate.
My red coupe was all original...had some chips and nicks, but I wouldn't have painted that car in a million years. Some wetsanding and a LOT of polishing and the paint was as good as a $5k repaint, and it was harder and of course, still original.
Steve
If anyone wants to meet me at mile marker 77 (halfway between Burns and Bend, Oregon), I'll show you some trails that even most jeeps stay away from.
I need to get over been so protective of my 968 because it's such a good example of the breed. I may, however, install rub strips along the sides to minimize door dings. I bought a guards red set. Just need to paint and install them...but they do detract from the look. Life's full of compomises. Ugh!
H2
01-28-2008, 09:42 PM
#12
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You're right. I'm too **** about my cars. I try to make them perfect but the fact is that I have more fun with vehicles that I don't mind using hard...for example, my 4WD truck. I've had it airborne in the central Oregon desert more than once...and have taken it places that the new, shiney trucks wouldn't dare go.
If anyone wants to meet me at mile marker 77 (halfway between Burns and Bend, Oregon), I'll show you some trails that even most jeeps stay away from.
I need to get over been so protective of my 968 because it's such a good example of the breed. I may, however, install rub strips along the sides to minimize door dings. I bought a guards red set. Just need to paint and install them...but they do detract from the look. Life's full of compomises. Ugh!
H2
If anyone wants to meet me at mile marker 77 (halfway between Burns and Bend, Oregon), I'll show you some trails that even most jeeps stay away from.
I need to get over been so protective of my 968 because it's such a good example of the breed. I may, however, install rub strips along the sides to minimize door dings. I bought a guards red set. Just need to paint and install them...but they do detract from the look. Life's full of compomises. Ugh!
H2
Raj
01-28-2008, 11:44 PM
#13
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Seriously? I'm taking mine off and selling them.
No way, you must be joking. I can go to my local friendly dismantler and stock up on all the ones they have sitting around in bins and boxes. I can paint them, and make a fortune.
No way, you must be joking. I can go to my local friendly dismantler and stock up on all the ones they have sitting around in bins and boxes. I can paint them, and make a fortune.
01-29-2008, 08:30 AM
#15
Three Wheelin'
Harvey,
You would want to start with 2500 grit and end with 3000 grit wet paper. The only thing is you would really need to use a rotary buffer to get rid of the sanding marks after you're done, and then finish it off with a mild compound on a Dual Action/Forced rotation polisher. It's a lot of work, but well worth the effort.
Steve
You would want to start with 2500 grit and end with 3000 grit wet paper. The only thing is you would really need to use a rotary buffer to get rid of the sanding marks after you're done, and then finish it off with a mild compound on a Dual Action/Forced rotation polisher. It's a lot of work, but well worth the effort.
Steve
