luckett

I'm evaluating whether I want to make my heavily track oriented 968 into a racecar, or if I should be considering a switch to another platform. I've done lots of research and I have my opinions, but I want to hear what you guys in the trenches have to say.

What org., class and region do race in? Are you competitive in that class and what other cars comprise the fast group in that class? How would you rate yourself as a driver vs. your peers?

After a couple of racing seasons, do you find the speed and performance of the 968 keep you challenged as a driver or do you find yourself wanting to step up to a more capable car?

If you had a chance to do it all over again, would you choose a 968? Why or why not? If you had to choose another car to race (non 944 based chassis), what would it be?

If you know of any 968 racers that don't visit here regularly, please point them over here to this topic.

thanks

Richard C

Chris:

There are plenty of guys here who have 968 track cars in various classes so I'm sure they'll reply.

Jim Child

I've raced my 968 in both PCA F class and NASA GTS2. The car easily goes back and forth between classes with nothing more than a slight ballast adjustment. It could also be raced as is in 944 Super Cup, and I might try that this year.

My car is very competitive in both PCA and NASA GTS2. Last year in PCA I ran 5 races and had one 1st, three 2nds, and a 4th in F class. In NASA GTS2 I ran 10 races scoring 8 wins, two 2nds, and both a regional and a national championship. Based on lap times I know the car would run at the front of the 944 Super Cup field.

In PCA the car competes against 944 S2's, 944 Turbos (non S), and 80's era 911's. The 911 Euro SC's are probably the most competitive car in the class, but the 944 S2's and 968's are very close. (For PCA note that the classes are being renamed in 2008, so what was called F class in the past will now be called E class going forward. Nothing changes other than the name.)

In NASA GTS2 the car competes against the same cars as PCA plus various 3 series BMW's. There's also one very quick guy driving a extremely light '84 944. Occasionally you see an Audi, Mercedes or VW.

I've been racing the car since 2003, and I'm still having a blast. Its very rare to have a race car that can be competitive in 3 different classes, and I really enjoy having that flexibility. At this point I see no reason to spend money on a faster car, so I'll keep racing the 968.

Keep in mind that I race in the midwest where we see very large turnouts for PCA F class, 15 to 30+ cars. For NASA GTS2 we usually see 8 to 16 cars. I don’t know how popular these classes might be in your area, but that's important to research. Its no fun racing when you're the only one in your class.

Good luck with your decision!

FRporscheman

Jim, how much does your car weigh?

flwbyu

Jim, All I can say is I Love You! It's great hearing about the 968's in racing and the experiences that most of the drivers have with the car. I am a novice myself and hope to get more track time this year. I primarily do the Autocross and DE events with my local PCA group. I am getting better with experience and finally came in second this last year for the Autocross timing in my class which is very competitive. This was great for me since I spent the last two years being last or close to last! I have found the 968 to be a very capable car against the various other Porsche's, Audi's and BMW's. All cars have there good and bad points but the 968 has more good points going for it in my opinion. Plus, there seems to be quite a bit of revival going on for the 968's in terms of parts, information, etc., I wish you the best in your endeavors!

Jim Child

Minimum weight with driver for PCA is 3,236. My minimum with driver for NASA GTS2 is 3,140. I weigh about 200 lbs with all my gear, so the lightest the car ever runs is 2,940.

mikew968

I too run a 968 in PCA and NASA. I have progressed the car from a street car to auto-a to DE to full race car. I had my first win this fall after a number of 3rds and 2nds. (Jim had to leave for the Sunday race "helping" me to a 1st place) I finished 6th in 2006 NASA nationals and 4th this past year. If you have questions we will definately help you out...as long as you're not too close ha ha!!!!

Good luck, Mike

luckett

The problem for me is that out here on the west coast, there is not much PCA racing going on. In socal people run with the POC, but the POC really doesn't run up north.

There is the Porsche Racing Club, which fills the gap by running under several other sanctioning orgs using PCA rules. But they are more oriented towards GT classes and they lump all Stock/Prod cars into ONE class!

NASA has a full sched., but no one runs GTS2 or Supercup. The best class with competitors is the new Performance Touring class with the points-for-mods system where the mods can bump you up or down a class. It seems that this sort of classing system would be notoriously difficult to regulate and monitor. It really comes down to a class self regulatory scenario where it works well if everyone has high ethical standards and respect for their fellow competitors, but as soon as one problem person gets in, the whole thing will go to **** very quickly.

I have to do some more research on what the PT guys in my potential class are running. But who knows what their mods are...

Maybe if I start running Supercup some of the spec 944 guys looking to graduate to a faster car might be inclined to join me?

Lemming

Chris,

PT uses the same system as Time Trials, which I ran last year. I did not notice a problem with the point system, and at Nationals all the top placing cars were scrutinized. I had considered running PT this year but wanted to make a few mods. Unfortunately those mods would bump me from TTB to TTA. Without throwing a bunch of cash at my car, I don't think it will be competitive in TTA. Also, in the SE not many people are running PT, whereas GTS is very lively.

I'm signed up for comp school in March at RA and will plan on competing in GTS-3. My weight/hp will be right around 11.8, so to be really competitive I could stand to loose a bit of weight (wt/hp of 11 is optimal; currently 2,570 lbs, need to go to 2,398). I think I can get close to that weight next year with fiberglass body parts (already have many of the needed pieces but decided not to install this year as I am better at repairing metal than fiberglass )

notthd

Jim- how modified is your car- I too have been toying with teh thought of a 968 Racer. I run a F500 formula SCCA and like stated above, It's no fun being the only one in your class... Motor stock with suspension upgrade? Are you running the stock Calipers? The options for running the 968 or 944 seem endless but in the SCCA the 944 is not very competitive from the cars I've seen in ITS or ITE.- thoughts?

Jim Child

I know there is some good racing in the Performance Touring classes in our NASA region. Unfortunately, since I'm not familiar with the PT rules I can't tell you if a 968 could be competitive in a PT class. If you figure out what cars you'd be runnig against, and what mods you're allowed then I might be able to predict how competitive your 968 would be.

I hate to say it, but given your location its possible that your best bet is to go racing with a different car. The first thing to think about is what tracks you want to run. Then see which organizations regularly run there. Then see which classes in those organizations offer competitive racing in cars you find interesting. If your 968 can be competitive in one of those classes then you're good to go. If not you're probably better off buying an existing race car with a history of running well in your chosen class.

Jim Child

My car is prepped to the PCA stock class rules. Accordingly the motor is stock after the intake to the exhaust ports. I have a lightly modified intake and a header running straight back to a racing muffler. PCA allows aggressive suspension mods, so I have double adjustable Ledas all around with various spring rates depending where I'm running. My car is a factory M030 car, so it came with the M030 bars and brakes which I still have. Going to larger brakes would bump the car up a class in PCA so I haven't done that.

For NASA GTS, the rules are simple. Lbs/hp determines class, and beyond that anything goes. I'm fortunate that the car as prepared for PCA falls right into the sweet spot of the GTS2 lbs/hp range.

luckett

That's why I wanted insight from you guys.

I already have a beater 968 track car with gutted interior, suspension mods that are really too stiff for the streets here, AC delete, extinguisher, PS delete, oil pan baffle, racing pads, custom track exhaust, steel brake lines.

On the shelf are an LSD, bolt-in cage, harnesses, getting ready to take the dash out and remove AC/heater stuff, 3 pc crossmember soon, oil press/temp guages, water temp guage.

The "to buy" list has all the normal stuff to get the car up to race standards and a few upgrade bits. Good/$$$ seat, fire system, accusump, etc. Coilovers with stiffer springs, solid bushings, lower a-arms.


I'm at the point where I can stop and turn my car back into a weekend driver, or dive in head first and not look back. My head is telling me to stop and look for another car (or maybe shifter cart). My heart is telling me to race the thing since I'm familiar with the car mechanically and I know I'm fast in the car.


Jim, your advice is sound and exactly the same as I myself would give to someone in my situation, but it's a perfect example of "do what I say, not what I do"!

Decisions, decisions....

Eric_k

There is also the new SCCA ITR class where the 968 could be competitive. If I was in NorCal and wanted to race a 968 I would look at running NASA enduros and I think their GTS and PT classes are growing in the area as well. The car is great for long races. I would also look into USTCC. I had fun racing my 968 with them. They would prefer newer cars but Ali might not turn you away. There are plenty of classes where the car could run, but maybe not at the front. SCCA ITE for example. I value having fun over winning anyways.

luckett

GTS is dead here and PT is too new to figure out consistency in class numbers.

I don't need to be winning. I just want a reasonable large group of good drivers that I can battle it out with.

Well, on second thought, maybe I should just find a class where I can podium every race.