Excellence magazine publishes Porsche values...and the 944/968 values get published every so often. In your experience, how accurate are these figures?

In responding, keep in mind that this is a complex topic. There are enthusiasts who have put a lot of $$ in making our cars near perfect...thereby making them worth more to the buyer in the long run (fewer big expenses to deal with, keeping the first 1-5 year costs lower). Then there are those who do not adequately maintain their cars, beat them, and when they're about shot or need an expensive fix, list them on CarTrader or eBay and dump them for less than what they might be worth if they were in good shape...but exaggerate the condition. These latter POS cars seem to affect the overall prices of 968s in the Anderson report...or not?

When you buy a Pcar, it's very important to buy one in verified shape so you know what you're getting. You'd really hate it if you bought a 968 that "looked" near perfect then pulled the cam cover to find that some of the teeth had been worn off of the cam or it has poor compression...or a torque tube that was eating into something important...or a noise in the rear end. A PrePurchase Inspection (PPI) is essential on any Pcar...otherwise you could end up paying up to twice as much for a car what you could have if you had bought one with minimal issues to begin with.

That said, everyone seems to be looking for "the bargain of a lifetime" and take a lot of gambles on Pcar buys....buying a car w/o an adequate PPI too often end up paying a lot more for the car than they should.

eBay especially seems to have a lot of really bad deals listed. Photos are made to hide expensive issues, and carefully crafted wording to avoid issues...but still leave you stuck with the car.

Then there's the travel to pick up a car and find that it's a POS. And heaven help you if you have a shipper ship it to you. Caveat Emptor!

What's your experience?

Harvey

 

I bought both of mine with no PPI- one needed nothing. the other I was prepared for some of the issues that arose others caught me by surprise but I would have done them in the next 10K miles anyway. As far as Excellence values goes I have no idea if they are based in reality.

 

Bruce Anderson takes a LOT of crap from folks everytime he publishes that report, as enthusiasts always seem to think their cars are worth more than he reports. He takes his numbers from actual sales, so its kinda hard to fault him. He's asked for feedback from variousl forums, including Rennlist over the years, so again, I have never understood why there is so much animosity towards him over this.

Bruce is also a heck of a nice guy and EXTREMELY knowledgeable about Porsches, including 944's. His wife has driven one for something like 17-18 years, I believe, altho last I heard, they were going to replace it with a Boxster.

Regards,

 

It would seem that the small sample of 968 sales that Excellence bases their projections on is problematic at best. With less than 5000 cars in the US, 968 values are, it seems to me, completely relative. A nice low mileage cab might go for $20k+ on ebay and yet the same car might sell locally for thousands less. Any single 968 is worth what the buyer and seller agree on. The relative scarcity causes wild variances in prices.

That said, here are two things I believe:

1. Excellence values are useful in establishing baselines. They also provide a handy year-to-year view of relative values.

2. 968 prices have stabilized. This is not to say that you cannot get one cheaper today than you could a few years ago. This is primarily because the overall 'fleet' has aged and average mileage is higher. No, what I think is that a nice low mileage car is worth today more than a similar car was worth three or four years ago.

 

Harvey, there are nice cars and then there are excellent cars. I think an excellent example with very low mileage and a nice color would always retain its value or loose it at a much slower rate. I have been fortunate enought to have seen quite a few 968's and to me the biggest factor is its originality. A car with orginal paint with no paint or body work will always be worth an extra grand or two to me. I don't care how much you spend on your paint job, its still not original.
As far as maintainence, it can add a lot of $$ to your buying price very quickly. What can help is if you do some of your wrenching or assess the condition prior to the purchase. This will help negotiate a fair price on the car.
As far as their values, I think the market will eventually decide what a car is worth. Its not up to the buyer but upto the seller what a car's worth. One can ask all they want but if no one pays it, you would have to adjust your price. These cars will come down a bit in the next few yrs but I think over time, they will probably remain relatively stable. I think they might be just about rock bottom now or in the next few yrs.
As great as our cars are, their performance is mediocre at best. We tend to get blinded by our love and thus think they are worth more since they mean a lot to us.
Raj

 

An important point that needs to be stated clearly on occasion. Some people discuss the 968 in ways that the car cannot live up to. It is a nice car, but it is not a great car. That said, there are some great 968s. Some because they are so original and pristine and some because they have been carefully modified far beyond the stock car's abilities. It is great that the basic chassis and structure has so much potential - and a darned shame that Porsche did not fully realize it... but that is another story.
I wonder if these two statements are not at odds with one another? I would think, and I believe that Adam Smith would agree, that the buyer sets the conditions in most economic transactions. Of course if a good is scarce and in demand then the consumer must be willing to pay the higher cost... and that is the rub with the 968 - it is relatively scarce, however it is not likewise in particularly high demand.

 

Ok this is how I see it comming from a car salesman perspective. When I look at cars if it's a Honda, Dodge, and the evil that is taking over the world. (Toyota) I use the kbb and maybe the BlackBook if its in really good contition. Exotics like our Porsches I check club magazines, collector car books, and definatly the BlackBook. The club mag are always wayyy over the market value for their prices because they believe all of the cars are well taken care of. Collector car books are all about restorations who's prices reflect aution prices. The BlackBook, which I recommend everyone buy, is the most accurate for contition, miles adjustment, options, color, and rarity of the vehicle. Excellence mag is a joke to me. Basicly if you have a "Garage Queen" your car fits the Excellence mag catagory.

 

Well, they're accurate as far as I'm concerned. They published exactly what I sent them when I've sold cars. I can't say if other people put down the truth of the price and condition like I have.

 

I use the Excellence price guide to dicker because most sellers tend to price above the Excellence prices. It worked on my last purchase..that and I found some flaws that worked to my advantage. Unfortunately, I overlooked a few and the car (a 928) will cost me a bit more to get it "right" than I'd planned. I really lucked out on my 968 purchase....better mechanical shape overall than I thought when I bought it. Whoever had the car really took care of it. And I had TWO PPIs...one I paid for and one the seller paid for because he didn't believe the results of my PPI.

If you're near Hot-lanta, Ryland's of Marietta does a GREAT PPI.

Harvey

 

Funny. My 968 purchase was even easier than that. I visit the gentelmans home after seeing his ad on craigslist. At the time I was hooked on getting a 951 but the banks said the car had to be a 92' or newer. I drove the car fell in love and the guy could have taken me to the cleaners. He was askin for 14,000 but after the drive he told me 11,000. It was fate. Soulmates forever.