Konstantin

I forgot to mention
my other 3L turbo engines runs too now.
I just finished it 1 week ago.
So with two 3L turbo car I feel much better.
one original and one for big power and experimentation



Konstantin

Jay Wellwood

After reviewing my notes - the 951 Exhaust valves are 112.4 mm in length while the 89 NA exhaust valves are 111.9 mm in length. As you can see the 951 are 0.5 mm longer (or higher if you will). The PET does call for 0.5 and 1.0 mm shims for establishing the correct valve stem height. The shop I used set the valves for use with the 951 cam settings - so my SWAG is that they did not have to make any changes or use any shims.

On another interesting note - the 951 and the 89 NA Intake valves are the same in length. HOWEVER - the 89 intake valve is 48 mm in diameter while the 951 intake valve is 45 mm in diameter - sooooo....an overall gain in 3 mm on the Intake side.

Hope this clears things up a bit, sorry for the confusion.

Jay Wellwood

Yeah yeah yeah...you have too many - gimme gimme gimme.

Now you have an interesting task - time to start making comparisions and noting the power curves for each mill and sharing the info with the rest of us.

Jay Wellwood

Okay, read and re-read the motor removal section and then on the Piston removal section. Seems pretty straight forward.

STarted looking at the Camshaft setting, and then remembered that this won't apply as I'm using the 8V head. So...what settings information will I need? Sounds as though I'll be looking for that info from the 951 owners.

Tom M'Guinn

Jay, Are you asking about timing the 8v cam? If so, it is pretty straight forward on the 951. The cam sprocket has a mark that lines up with a mark on the rear cam sproket cover when the No.1 piston is at TDC on the compression stroke. The cam and sprocket are keyed, so no real risk of getting that wrong. You can dulplicate the whole set up on the front of an 8v 3.0 liter, using either the auto-tensioner of the later 951's or the eccentric tensioner from the early 951's.

Jay Wellwood

Thanks Tom.

I'm guessing that it would be pretty easy.

I started looking at which parts to use in the Cam drive area. Using the 8V setup had me wondering if there was a difference in drive belts and which to use.

Looking at my parts list, it shows 2 different part numbers for the 8V and the 16V cam belts for starters. I'm thinking that the 8V p/n is the one to be used here. Based on application alone - other than p/n - is there a physical difference between the 2 belts? I know that in the 928 community, there are 2 different style belts and associated gears based on revising the gear and belt tooth design, I wonder if this is the same case here?

Not sure what the implication is here, but it appears that abit more research is due here.

RajDatta

Jay, I have all the information you need. Drop me a line when you get a chance. Another fool safe way to time the cam with the engine in the car is to allign the notch on the flywheel to the bell housing. Did you fin a 951 bell housing yet?
What clutch setup are you planning on running. These questions are all tied, that is why it would be the easiest to talk on the telephone. You need to run a 951 belt, which is narrower and shorter. Ideally you want to run a 944 S2 tensioner or a later style 951 spring loaded tensioner.
Also, I was running an open diff trans on my car that came from Damian's 1995 cab. It has only 35K on it and works perfectly. I know you are running a 951 trans. Let me know if you plan to switch. I was running it while I was getting mine rebuilt. It should be coming back to me in the next week or so.
Regards.
Raj

Jay Wellwood

Okay...here we go guys!

I'll be hosting an engine pulling party this coming weekend (1/8/05 - with alternate weekend for 1/15/05).

Also, be watching for specialized 968 parts to start being posted for sale. I'll no longer need the custom Intake or exhaust that makes my current 968 turbo work as I'll be converting to the 8V head system.

Stay tuned!!!

Jay Wellwood

Well, whatta weekend!

Helped the Missus finish putting away the Christmas decorations, but managed to work in a few hours here and there on the 968. Here's a couple of pics of before....




Then after a few hours here and there over the weekend, this is where I'm at now....



So, what's left? Well, gotta get the Power Steering Pump off, and then work on the Turbo connections (oil and exhaust lines) and then finally the bolts to the torque tube. Overall, about 7 hours of actual wrenching has taken place at a very relaxed pace for me.

More to come....

Konstantin

Don't give gime wrong infos otherwise he will buy the wrong parts
The $V Tensione ris not the same as the 2V tensioner. He needs either the one from the 951 or from the 2.7L 944.
the 944S2 tensiner will not work except if you wnat to modify it which will cost more than a working used one from the cars I mentioned above.

If you wnat to mof´dify one then keep tze one from 968 and modify this

Konstantin

Jay Wellwood

Uh....

Ok, let's reset here.

It appears that the 951 tensioner is the one to use (is this correct?), so that the 951 belt is used as well.

Also, the 951 and the 968 balance shaft p/n's are the same, so this will convey directly over. The tbelt covers APPEAR to be different based on p/n's as well as the images in the PET - sooooo....go to 951 tbelt covers.

RajDatta

Konstantin, I think you need to check your resources before you jump on this one. A 944S2 has the same tensioner as a later style 951. They are bnoth spring loaded and I am curently running one in my 2 V turbo. I do know from 1st hand experience what I am talking about. He plans to use a 2 valve head and there is no need for him to use a 968 belt tensioner.
Check you facts before you start critisizing someone next time.
Raj

RajDatta

Jay, 951 everything. Be it belt covers/tensioner (which is same as an S2, just a different pulley roller) or even the crank pulley. You need to switch timing belt crank pulley to a 951, tensioner to a 951/S2, all belt covers. You will also need to remove the swivel pin that is on the lower balance shaft housing for the 968 style tensioner.
As per our phone conversation, you can verify all this on PET.
Raj

Jay Wellwood

Thanks Raj...

So, everyone take notes!!!

Konstantin

helo
jay do not forget to thank raj when your motor is destroyed.
I am not sitting here to corect all his mistakes or to corect mistakes from other people but when I see that someone engine is in danger i try to help
@ Raj. a great Philosoph said
Stupid is not to make mistakes. Stupid is not to learn from your mistakes
So take your time and listen and learn

study your Porsche books check your PER and after you ask people and get the right anwers and see that even PET or the Porsche books make mistakes then you can deny my help
so for last time
the tensioners are not the same. You can easily regognize them since one has the "2V" on it and the other one has the "4V" on it
it looks the same and it fits in the car but since both cars have a different timing belt the tensioner for teh timing belt is different. We talk about this tensioner or do you mean something else?

so here some detailed infos
tensioner for 951 after 87 part #
94410506714
tensioner for 944S2 after 89 part #
94410506713
thsi number has changed to 94410506715 which also cahnaged to 94410506716 which is the last and newest version for the S2

Tensioner for the 968
94410517203 968 from August 91

The balansh shaft is the same in S2 and 951 but NOT the same with the 2.7 L engine
you must becarrefull as teh bearings is the same only with the later 951 and not with the one from 85 and 86

you can NOT get the covers from other cars. The covers are specific made for thsi particular engine and you MUST use the cover that came with the engine

I have four S2 engines in my garge a 968 and a couple 968 and two 2.7L and I can waranty you that the Tensiorer is NOT the same.
do you want pics?


Konstantin
oh!! yes. and teh covers are NOT the same
the rear belt cover from the S2 is not the same with the 951.
It hapens that I just finished another 3l Turbo engine that I build my self and didn't bought it ready so be sure that these infos are right otherwise I can go to my garage and give you the parts numbers.
Do NOT always believe what you here or see in the Web. Many just repeat what they hear so the mistakes are just repeated. after some time you here the wrong stuff so often and you think it is right