Zirconocene

Help!

I'm trying to resurrect my beater 968, just enough to get it to run reasonably and make it onto a transport truck.

I decided to reset the timing and change the cam tensioner pads, new belts, etc.

Before I started all this, the engine turned over by hand with no issue. After I reinstalled the cams and went to start the actual timing procedure, I wanted to turn over the engine a couple of times before I started setting the timing. No dice, the engine/crank wouldn't move.

I didn't force things and have now removed the starter, verified the car is in neutral, and removed the cams again. Trying to rotate the crank alone is still not working.

Any ideas about what could have happened? And a further question, what the heck can I do to get things moving again?

Thanks

thomasmryan

have you pulled the plugs to check for the hydro-lock thing?

you might pull the oil pump gear to see if the oil pump is inhibiting rotation.

Zirconocene

Thanks, I will check out the oil pump.

The plugs are pulled from the car and I boroscoped the cylinders to make sure that I didn't mess something up when I first installed the cams. Everything looked OK, with the pistons dry.

I'm thinking about putting some ATF in the pistons overnight to see if that frees anything up, since I have to change the oil anyway.

Cheers

Yogii

Worst case scenario, attach the tow hook in front and winch the car on transport.

-Yogii
AKA 968 Novice

H.F.B.

Check your camshaft brackets. Probably installed upside down, 180° rotated/twisted etc.
Show a photo of your Installation.
EDIT: just read you removed the cams and still no change.

Jay Wellwood

Aaaaa.....flywheel lock?

Gage

Are any of the cam followers (lifters) positioned lower in the head than others?

Zirconocene

@Jay Wellwood : It's funny, but that is exactly the kind of thing I would normally screw up and kick myself about but, in this case, it's out.

@Gage : That's a great question; I'll have to go check. I pushed all the lifters by hand last night and they all rebound reasonably (I don't know what unreasonable means in this case, I was just looking to see if I had a lifter or spring stuck after my first cam installation).

My next plan is to put the car into 6th gear and try to rotate the crank that way. I'll have to find TDC again after that but hopefully things will get unstuck a little bit. I'll keep you updated.

I appreciate the help

jsheiry

Anything like wooden dowel left in cylinder 1 from finding TDC the first time ? As Thomas suggested have you pulled the timing belt gear and balance gear from crank with oil pump drive gear to make sure nothing binding down there ? Anything get loose and stuck at crank sensor in rear as there is some space/opening back there for visual inspection ? There is some adjustment I think on that crank sensor bracket and you could in theory bottom out the crank sensor on the flywheel if you happened to have replaced that while your in there ??

Zirconocene

New data: I removed everything from the crank nose except the Woodruff key and, with the help of my wife, we turned the wheels with the car in 5th and 6th gear. This worked to move the crank with very little effort.

Thinking I'd gotten things loose, I put the timing gear back on the crank, along with the balance shaft/accessory gear/pulley assembly, tightened things down and...no movement.

It looks like once I tighten the timing gear down on the crank things are getting stuck. I'll have a study of PET right now to see if I missed a washer or something (though there's definitely a washer there behind the timing gear).

What do I do?

Thanks

chudson

It certainly sounds like there is something assembled incorrectly. Your visit to the catalog and review of your assembly order is exactly what I suspect you should be doing.

Cliff

Zirconocene

Any chance that the oil pump sleeve is getting bound up, somehow? I've been experimenting and it doesn't take much tightening of the crank bolt for everything to seize up.

I believe that the sleeve is a wear item but I don't understand how it could bind things up (that's more a reflection on me, however).

Thanks

Gage

The splines of the drive collar must be facing in and engaged fully with the oil pump gear. It is fully engaged when there is only 2 or 3mm of the collar exposed forward of the radial seal.
The wear factor is the outer sealing surface and would not limit rotation.

Zirconocene

OK, I'm starting to understand things a little better, I think.

If I understand correctly, the oil pump is driven directly off the crank by friction between the washer behind the crank pulley. So, as you tighten down the crank bolt, it pushes the oil pump sleeve into the grooves it is supposed to ride in and that force between the washer and splines holds everything where it's supposed to be. Do I have that right?

If, for whatever reason, the oil pump is seized, that would stop the crank from moving, is that right? Am I looking at removing the oil pump sleeve for inspection?

Thanks

Zirconocene

Let me start by thanking everyone that jumped in to help with this. Unfortunately, I have sort of run out of time to get this fixed so I buttoned everything up as best I could to get the car ready for transport to its new home (also my new home, I'm not getting rid of this thing!).

Once I can really dig into things, I'll update this thread but I think that the next step is to remove the oil pan and crossmember, then remove and diagnose the oil pump. Not totally looking forward to that but since I need to address many things on this car anyway, this is a good excuse to really go deep.

Cheers