urquattro20Vt

Hi Guys - I'm starting my hunt for a new toy. Coming from the land of the Audi Turbo Quattro Coupe (with a mile long list of mods/upgrades including a motor swap done mostly in my garage) and looking to get either a 964 Turbo (3.3) or 993tt. I'll be cross posting to both forums to get both sides input.

What are your thoughts on 964 Turbo vs 993tt?

Here's my take: (and numerous questions)

Until recently I've had my heart set on a 993tt: Motronic (coming from Audi turbos with CIS (prior to my motor swap to a Motronic engine), AWD, and super sexy shape. But recently I've gotten very into the idea of a 964 Turbo because they do look _awesome_ and are a little more reasonably priced. I'm wondering if I can do without Motronic and awd. By the way I'm looking for a car to drive. Not fluff n buff. I'm ok with some mileage on the odo assuming very well maintained. How bad are the CIS gremlins on the 964 Turbos? Stock is what? 330 hp? I'd want closer to 400. Is there a tried true set of mods that reliably get there? How about rear wheel drive - being in Colorado I've been an quattro/awd guy forever. How hard is it to get in trouble with a 400 hp 964 T? (Yes I would do a few DE's to get to really know the car).

How is parts availabilty with 964 vs 993?

How many miles, in general, til a 964 T engine needs a rebuild? 993tt?

How difficult are they to work on?

In your opinion what are the pro's & cons of each car.

How livable is the car on an everyday basis? - I do not intend to drive it every day - but it won't be a Sunday driver. Work sometimes, to the store, to nowhere...

I guess I've rambled on enough for now - thanks in advance!

Brandon

marcb993

Have you tried both cars ? I think if you did, it would help your decision process a lot.

They are very different in character; the 993TT is more modern, smoother, more insulated, with lighter controls (e.g. clutch and steering) versus the 964T, which to me feels more characterful, communicative and somehow even more solid in terms of build quality, as though the accountants had less of a say when Porsche was building 964 turbos than when they were building 993 turbos (I never really sensed this with the non turbo 964s and 993s, so probably it's just a subjective impression that won't manifest itself in lower maintainance costs - I expect the more technically advanced 993TT will be more reliable and cheaper to maintain).

I was in a similar position to you last October and test drove a stunning RS Tuning modified 993tt with GT2 bodywork and a low mileage all original 964 T 3.6 both on the same day. Two minutes behind the wheel of the 964 and for me it was a done deal, I bought it without a second thought.

Sorry I can't help you with some of your more technical questions, but no doubt someone else will chime in.

jonizz

If you're comin from audi Turbo uqattro coupe I think you are best of with the 964 turbo.
The 964 turbo (aka 965) is more hardcore than the 993 turbo. The 993 is more sivilized and a bit softer.
You can work on both cars and I think they are both just as rialiable.
Parts are never a problem with any porsche, you can get anything you need.

Go for a testdrive in both of them, but I am sure we will meet again here in the 964 turbo forum....

Frank 993 C4S

You have to drive both of them and you'll see the differences. The 993TT has a much more V8 like power band and is a much more civilized car for everyday use. I've been toying with the idea of getting a Ruf TurboR or BTR for some time.

With headers and 1 bar boost spring you should be able to get a 3.3T to about 400hp and a 3.6T a little beyond that. If you want to get above that you're probably into a CIS conversion (I'm not an expert here). Do a search and you'll see that there a quite a few of high mileage 964Ts on this board. I have never been "in trouble" with my 964T but the usual laws of physics apply.

Both the 993TT and 964T should see very limited depreciation (if at all) going forward. Both a great cars but to each their own.

Y65MPH

I own both. The 993TT feels like a modern day car next to a 964T. Performance is far more linear in the 993TT. As for your concerns on the CIS, you are well justified. That is why my 964T has been converted to a full motronic (650+ HP) setup by Protomotive. So it has modern day performance with old school looks. Plus the 964T has a much nicer interior than the 993TT. More leather and better carpet quality.

If you are interested in a motronic 964T, I would sell mine but it has low miles and is not cheap.

Craig

Marshy

Craig,

I have a few questions. You've got a PM.

Cheers,

Geoff

hchan911

Hi Craig,

Have you had any problem since you converted to a motronic and how do you liked it ? Thanks

Chan Hoang

Metal Guru

+1
With all that I've put into my car, there's no way I'd let it go at market price. Maybe that means that I'll have it forever

urquattro20Vt

Trust me I know how that goes!

Y65MPH

None, it runs like a modern day Porsche. Crazy quick throttle response. Perfect fuel delivery. Runs 1.35 bar from a GT3582AR on pump gas and can run 1.75 bar on MS109. Red line is now close to 9K so the power band runs from 3500 up to the top (titanium rods and springs). It never runs out of steam.

I was one of the unlucky few that had one CIS issue after another. I spent a fortune trying to chase CIS problems until I had the engine build done.

urquattro20Vt

What are the typical maladies? I figured I'd want to see any car do a cold, warm and hot start. Running issues, too? - like inconsistent boost/power? I'm familiar with CIS issues in Audi turbos - curious if they are the same with Porsche...

Thanks again.

Brandon

Y65MPH

Warm up regulators are a common issue. Over boosting especially with 1 bar spring and no cat. Poor idle, no start when hot. Ignition control module a.k.a EZ69. Replacement parts are very expensive. That is why you will find many 3.3T's with EFI conversions. 3.6t's are not as popular to covert based on collectability.

Gandara

Good thing I only had problem with my WUR, had it rebuilt/upgraded. Never had to chase down any CIS problems, but if I do I either sell or convert. I like your car.

scudnik

I agree 110% with the above... I had a lightly modified 91 Turbo (headers, 1 bar spring), sold it and bough an Andial 993TT 3.8. When I bought the Andial, I thought that I would hold onto it forever. Despite the Andial being a much faster/unique car than the 964T, I just enjoyed the 964Tbetter so I just bought that car back. The clutch and steering feel WAY to light in the 993TT for my preference. For that reason alone, I suggest you drive both and then decide.

Metal Guru

Cracked injector blocks that cause a boost leak is another issue. I had to replace all of mine last summer as well as a leaking cold start valve (the replacement cold start valve failed too).
I'll go to EFI if/when the ez fails but at the moment my car is tuned to the limit and running like a raped ape.