frayed

I've had 3 996s (C2, C4S, GT3) and 2 997s (S and GT3).

Now, looking seriously at 965s I have a concern. . . not maintenance, power, stiffness, noise, clutch/brake/shifter/steering effort, or the like. Rather, it's the chassis. I know the older cars do not have all the chassis refinements, including the switch to the 4 link rear end in the 993, etc. However a local pcar nut was telling me he thought these cars are really antiquated, and the chassis feels like a 30 year old design, even older than the model year. He described lots of vertical movement, and a rear end that has lots of troubles over real life corners (which have bumps).

I get to drive one this weekend, but I'm concerned that I won't be able to 'exercise' it like I would normally in a test drive. As such, I'm concerned about uncovering fatal handling defects only after I buy the car.

Can you guys shed any light on this topic?

Colorado964turbo

I would say that until you drive it, there isn't much that can be said. I have driven a couple off 996's, not a GT3, and the ride on my turbo is much rougher. That may be due to the suspension though..

Bill

Ag02M5

I would say that most anything could probably be cured with some suspension work...coilovers, adjustable sway bars, camber plates, etc.

nathanUK '81 930 G50

Paul Frere suggests that the 964 rear suspension is not a great improvement over the 911 in his book "The 911 Story".

I think it is fair to say that the quickest 911 is the newest one though despite the 911 being lighter than the 964. This also goes on with the 993 being heavier than the 964. AFAIK only the 996 is lighter than a 993. The 997 went back to being heavier than its predecessor the 996.

What I would like to do is get a 930 with a 935 front suspension & a 993 rear suspension That car would be pretty light and apart from it not having a flat floor and a low drag I think it would be pretty awesome. A guy in Hong Kong has a 993 rear suspension in his 930.

Anyway I think the 964t will be more fun than the cars you have had even though maybe not as quick at cornering.

frayed

I think I have the Frere book around somewhere, but it might be the one on driving a 911. I'll read over his comments. thx

nathanUK '81 930 G50

It's this book.

JBH

Are you interested in the car for track, street or both?

There are quite a few guys around that drove these cars in PCA racing with pretty good success. Many owners start the suspension modification with heavier springs - that takes care of both ride height and softness in the suspension. Springs are pretty cheap and can be tuned to your intended use. This is a big advantage of the 964 suspension.

There are also a number of very good damper choices, selected according to your intended use.

Is a 964T suspension better tha a 930...that is probably debatable. I know a lot of really fast 930s, but in general I would say yes, but the difference is not a lot. After all, it's still a trailing arm rear setup and by today's standards, it's antiquated.

What I don't like about the 965 is the power steering. Jumping from my Caterham to the 964T, the difference is night and day. In comparison, the Porsche steering is not very responsive

I wonder, has anyone converted to a standard, unassisted rack & pinion? I imagine that's a big project.

PTurbo965

I forgot what you wanted this car for? I thought it was a knock around on the weekend deal. Is that right? If it is, then you will love the car and have a hard time finding better.

Do you honestly think that you will keep a 3.6t all that long anyway?

frayed

Weekend driving, fair weather driving. No track driving. No foul weather stuff. Just for fun.

Keeping it? Man, I don't have a good track record with automotive fidelity. Bested only by Mooty.

Staffan

As long as the dampers are not completly shot a set of harder springs will make a lot of difference. I used to run with H&R Turbo "sport" springs together with stock dampers, great for spirited driving but still comfortable. Before that my car "rocked like a boat" (running 964 cup today).

A friend put a Bilstein PSS9 chassi on his 964 turbo, I drove the car before and after on the Nürburgring, with street tyres and also r-rated ones, I was really impressed especially with street tyres. The dampers has an adjustment **** with 9 different settings. I would say these dampers are a good compromise that works for street and occasional track driving.

cobalt

+1

I have a fair amount of seat time in 993's and early 911/930's and to be honest I find little difference between the 964 and 993, other than extremely bumpy roads the 993 handles it better. As Steffan said the dampers/shocks make all the difference, I was rather disappointed in my car when I first got it but after the Bilstein/H&R change over I was ecstatic. These cars need to be slightly modernized to enjoy and a suspension upgrade is a must.

I came from years of driving 911's and 930's and there is a big difference between them and the 964's. The 964 chassis is much stiffer and the coil overs make a major difference once upgraded. The torsion bars are very unpredictable over bumpy roads and have a tendency to skip around like driving a 964 with shot shocks riding on only springs. The front end of a 911/930 does the same thing as the rears of a 964 with bad shocks. I will also say that your choice of alignment can make all the difference.

These cars are a challenge and a handful to drive, but that is what makes them the thrill they are. A GT3 or 996 is very capable and makes driving on the track much easier than in these earlier cars however the thrill is not the same and like anything once you get accustomed to its idiosyncrasies it is all about adjusting accordingly and you will be amazed how well these old cars can do.

Ag02M5

That is good to hear considering I am in the process of installing them. Did he have camber plates as well? I am going to try it out with the stock rubber mounts first.

frayed

Thanks again guys.

My immediate plan on any car with stock-ish suspension would be to replace it with a PSS9 setup. I think this setup is the sweet spot for street applications. I have Motons on my track car but that would be overkill on a weekend car such as this.

Another hurdle I have in evaluating the 965 (besides a limited test drive) is the fact that many cars out there are in need of suspension work, from best I can tell. The ones local to me do not have proper suspensions, perhaps due to the fact that the Turbos attract hp guys and not so much handling guys. Based on my experience with other 911s, I have found that no 911 copes well with a worn out suspension, unlike your typical front engine car, such as a bmw or 944. So it all gets murky in a hurry for a newbie like me to really get a handle on these cars from a few drives in cars of varying states of suspension tune.

Ag02M5

Put it this way...mine is going to the grave with me. No matter what new cars I find along the way. It really has all you could want in a street car (with a few easy mods)...classic styling, BOOOOOOST, and that oh so sexy wide rear end.

cobalt

Your getting buried in yours also.