Ruairidh

I agree with you on both points. And, honestly, if it is the case that a pseudonym was used, I'd have preferred it if it had been posted under his/her own name. And that we, as a community, had understood that that was his/her right as a member of this community and respected that rigHt.

Kahdmus, there is little that is more precious than the right to speak your mind. It is one of the reasons I live in the USA. So I'm sorry but I don't agree with you stating that putting a view is objectionable. Because whether one agrees or disagrees with what Django has to say, Django has a right to say it. If nothing else it forces the likes of me to stir their increasingly fat butts off of the fence and decide to contribute.

Rocket Rob

I'm in. Who's next?

Dave R.

I think that a scholarship fund is a wonderful way to honor a person's memory by doing something good for other people. I also cannot imagine the grief the Streathers have endured through the loss of their daughter Natalie. Losing my own daughter would break my heart.

However, if Django made some good points, then we ought to be able to discuss them.

This forum draws many people from all over the world. Some are new members, others have been around for years, some post often, others seldom. Some have become fast friends, others are cheerful acquaintances who share a bit more than a common interest in 964s, and yet others are acquaintances who have no connection with each other beyond sharing technical information and observations. Also, not everyone on this forum has the privilege, opportunity or desire to become close personal friends with Mr. Streather. There is nothing wrong with this.

Mr. Streather's message regarding the charities went not only to his fast friends (no pun intended ), but to all on this list. Django responded from the viewpoint of a distant acquaintance. He did not disparage Natalie Streather, in fact he did not mention her at all. His comments were direct, even bluntly direct, but they were honest, they were directed to the merits of the proposed charity venture, and they were cogent.

I appreciate Mr. Streather's explanation as to why he wants to set up two charitable entities. The explanation makes sense.

Mr. Streather also pitches the charities as part of the war on drugs:
The donation drive admin post concludes with the comment "This is our part on the war on drugs. " The Donation Drive page on Mr. Streather's website says "...the Streather family invite all those who support our goals of saving children from the scourge of drugs and their families from tragedy to donate whatever they can afford for this purpose." Like Django, I don't see a strong connection between providing an art scholarship and preventing or treating drug addiction, and if my primary objective were to combat drugs I would contribute elsewhere. Therefore, I find this pitch emotionally manipulative. The Streather's desire to honor their daughter by helping students study art is noble and by itself more than sufficient to justify a donation drive and invite contributions to establish scholarship funds.

As for Porsche content, John Dunkle is a trustee of the US Streather charity fund, and he owns Rennlist. If he wants to allow or encourage solicitation of contributions to Streather charities on the Rennlist forums, that is his right. But let's call a spade a spade. This donation drive on Rennlist is Porsche-related only because the people forming the charities and the people being invited to contribute to the charities share an appreciation for Porsches [and the raffle prizes are Porsche-related and well selected]. The "Donation drive for Natalie Streather charities" admin thread is descriptively titled and accomplishes the fund raising objective. I see no need for an additional admin thread; I humbly suggest that the present thread be removed from the Admin section and either killed or allowed to float with new posts like a normal thread.

The remainder of Django's points contain clues as to how the charities project could potentially be made more attractive or effective, and are thus valuable if perhaps somewhat painful to consider or difficult to answer.

Regards,
-Dave Ream

Syd B.

Is that a no?

Dave R.

Probably.

Adrian

Dear Dave,
If your daughter was a talented artist and died for some reason would you not feel that helping others like her in similar situations would be appropriate. I have seen up close and tragically personal what happens to youngsters when they get hooked on drugs. Do you know the success rate of rehab programs (if there are any and in many countries like Switzerland) there are very low. The main issue here is whilst you have an opinion you genuinely do not have any experience as as a father, as a person in these situations. There are lots of talented people out there in trouble. We intend to find them and offer them a way out.

I do find your comment that I am manipulating people to be offensive but I will leave it at that.

Why do we not look at other programs? Well are they working? The answer is basically no. Drug usage is on the increase not decrease. I cannot take on the drug lords. I will not donate money to programs who say they will. I also wanted a charity set up where everything was totally transparent. Every donor can see their money at work. A common complaint among the general public of which I am part is "How is my money being spent". In our scheme not only can this be answered but it can be shown. Also, it could well be that a rennlist family, maybe somebody on this board may actually benefit from this charity. Who goes around, comes around Dave.

Finally you complain about this thread being an admin thread. Yes I made it an admin thread and I have the power to do this. You will also notice that I actually deleted the other admin thread long before your post. However please look at the other admin thread. Look how many people have viewed that thread compared to the initial thread I made. These were made admin threads after discussion on the phone between myself and John Dunkle. In fact John made the threads admin in the areas which I am not a moderator. You will also notice that not all the forums have this thread.

Freedom off speech also allows you the freedom of not saying anything. If you do not wish to donate that is fine by me. I do not understand however why you make posts like you have.

I do respect and appreciate the fact that you have used your real name.

One last question Dave. In the past five years have I personally helped you with a problem which has saved you money? Got your 964 back on the road? All I ask is that those who I have helped by my service on these forums freeof charge, 24 hours a day, 7 days a week at least consider to help me out. I have never asked anyone for anything before, I have never charged anyone for anything. Yet when I ask for something there are people who object publicly like you have. This I am afraid I cannot understand.

Ciao,
Adrian
964C4

PS: Advertising and marketing costs money. I made a pledge that I would not use donors funds for this purpose. We have invested our own money to do what we can. I have also recruited some high profile people to help out in their areas of influence which is not Rennlist. If people out there wish to donate their advertising and marketing services we would gratefully appreciate it. If not then I am afraid we have to keep on going the way we are because my pockets are not that deep.

John Boggiano

Just a thought...

Maybe it's just me, but 'Admin' threads at the top of the board become so familiar that they can get overlooked.

Perhaps this thread might be best left to drift up and down so that it reappears from time to time. Each time it does so, it would be like a small prod to those that 'would' or 'will', but haven't.

Phil Raby

Funny, I was just about to make exactly the same observation - you beat me!

How about it Adrian?

Cheers

Adrian

Well consider it done. Back to 8 to 1 again.
Ciao,
Adrian
964C4

JW Hubbers

At the moment my pockets are rather shallow, but I'll make some time tomorrow to put a pointer on both my websites to bring your cause under the attention of more people.

My porsche 964 site doesn't attract huge numbers of visitors, but even if only a single person decides to follow the link to your page, it's worth it.

My other site attracts a bit more attention (30GB traffic and between 150.000 and 200.000 hits a month), and a substantial part is aimed at car (and bike) enthusiasts who happen to be interested in the Nurburgring. Lots of these have Porsches; I'll put a link on that page too.

Cheers,

JW

Adrian

Dear JW,
Thank you very much for the support. It is greatly appreciated. I wish there were people like yourself, JD, JM and the others who are helping who are not known to Rennlisters YET.
Ciao,
Adrian
964C4

Dave R.

Adrian,

I have viewed the 964 list admin thread titled "Donation drive for Natalie Streather charities".

Is there another admin thread you want me to read?

Dave Ream

Adrian

Dear Dave,
No but you could go to our web site and read what is there. Youmight get a better appreciation of what is going on and why. Also the rules as with as any rules are flexible and adaptable and they were written to comply with current US law. I did not want any rules and I actually call them guidelines.
Ciao,
Adrian
964C4

PS: I went through some of the previous money raising threads since I have been on rennlist and was surprised to find that no complaints or objections or questions had been raised before on any of them. I wonder why it started with this one? Silly question really.

Phil Raby

Adrian

I was thinking the same. I've just heard something about my nephew. He and his father (who's deaf) are keen on kite flying - the massive power jobs - and were recently on Pendine Sands in Wales with a load of other kiters. A 4x4 was driving down the beach and deliberately drove over Olly's £400 kite, wrecking it. Not surprisingly, he was in tears.

Someone on a UK kiting forum suggested raising money to buy him a replacement, and the response has been superb - and 100% positive.

Now, if a group of kiters can rally round for something as (relatively) trivial as a kite, why can't Porsche owners support one of their fellow enthusiasts in a very worthwhile cause?

Cheers

Jack667

Done. Who's next?