My long overdue 964 widebody track car build thread (long)
10-03-2014, 11:30 AM
#1
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Thread Starter
My long overdue 964 widebody track car build thread (long)
I have been putting off starting this thread because I have become so consumed by the project. As some of you may recall back in March I purchased a 1990 C4 I called the rescue 911. Unfortunately, after spending a month working on it this 83k mile neglected 964 i determined it was terminal. The cost far outweighed the potential gain even with market values climbing they would need to double where they are today to make it worth bringing back to its original glory.
The car would appear to have been treated well most of its life. A lot of money was spent on brakes, clutch and general maintenance only to have its new owner defile it but attempting to do his own oil line repair. The line from the oil pump to the oil filter was mangled. They cracked the nut by the filter and found out that after doing so that they had to drop the heat exchanger to remove the other side. It looks as though they gave up and attempted to use an oversized rubber hose and some clamps to reconnect the line. Needless to say the car was sprayed with oil to the point where it was a hazard to drive and was parked. Abandoned for nearly 10 years it sat and deteriorated. When I purchased the car a mechanic friend of mine had spent quite a bit of time draining the old fuel removing 5 quarts of extra oil and replacing most fuel lines. It started and ran fine. Surprisingly no smoke at all although you could hear the tell tale signs of broken head studs. Further evaluation showed 4 exhaust studs needing replacement.
So now I have this C4 and I have no idea what to do with it. I had been tracking my 1993 C2 which is a fun car to drive at speed. Although I am at the point it either needed to be taken to the next level or reverted back to stock. I had no problem doing this when it wasn’t worth much but now that values are increasing I had to think differently. The car had just turned 60k miles. Everything works as it should leak down and compression numbers are spot on and it is a great car. So the decision was made the C2 gets returned to street use and the C4 becomes the new track car.
The beauty of this project is that whatever I need to build this track car works in my favor. If a part is needed I buy new and it is used on either the C2 or my turbo and the parts get handed down to the tack car. It is a win win across the board.
As much as I love my 94 turbo 3.6 my dream has always been to own a 1994 3.8 RS/RSR although these are not street cars in the US and even today my turbo barely covers a deposit to buy one. So this track build started as a 3.8 RS clone. Well as things would have it my dreams far exceeded my budget and the cost associated with a proper 3.8 build were staggering. So that unfortunately was the first thing to go. As luck would have it I happened upon a 993 varioram engine with a protomotive low boost twin turbo charged stage 2 with the worlds largest intercooler. It comes complete with RS clutch 6 speed 993 transaxle with short gear ratios and a guard 40/60 racing LSD. Although it was not my original direction it fit perfectly into my budget. The engine had been refreshed recently and has all the extras I would have had to pay up for already installed.
So my focus was on selling off the old parts and sourcing wide body parts. Thanks to Track Racer I quickly sold off the extra body parts. Now I began to discover how difficult it is to source wide body parts. It appears with all the parted out narrow body cars parts are cheap but turbos were small production numbers and most remain due to their higher market value. So when you come across factory parts they are prohibitively expensive. What I also learned was the distinct change in the 964 from 1990 to 1991. Porsche had retained many small parts on the 964 from the earlier torsion bar cars. It is not just the flag mirrors and other obvious bits but the myriad of little parts that make this build difficult. In hindsight looking for a 1991 or newer would have been far easier to convert but there is no turning back now.
I begin this thread with a bit of the past mixed with where I am today. I will fill in the middle a little at a time. I met a lot of great people through rennlist and PP discussing options and sourcing parts. A few whackos as well but that I will save for another thread.
So here is the car as I first received it. Some pictures from the beginning and as I go along, and as the car currently stands.
There is a lot to cover and my focus is on getting this project completed but for now I figured I would start this thread instead of dropping tidbits elsewhere.
Please feel free to comment. Do understand this is a DE only car and not being built for PCA racing. It is for pure pleasure and my wife drives it as well so it will be full of compromises.
I hope I express what I am doing properly and it has been a tremendous amount of work so far. I am doing the majority of the work myself and although I know these cars well there is always more to learn and until you completely disassemble and reassemble them it is amazing what you realize you did not know.
BTW for the record I have done complete ground up restorations on earlier long nose 911’s, SC’s and 914’s this is my first 964 build other than conversions on my other cars and this includes rebuilding every aspect of the cars from engines to interiors. From what I have been told my 914 sold for over $20k which to me means I must have done something correct.
Enjoy
The car would appear to have been treated well most of its life. A lot of money was spent on brakes, clutch and general maintenance only to have its new owner defile it but attempting to do his own oil line repair. The line from the oil pump to the oil filter was mangled. They cracked the nut by the filter and found out that after doing so that they had to drop the heat exchanger to remove the other side. It looks as though they gave up and attempted to use an oversized rubber hose and some clamps to reconnect the line. Needless to say the car was sprayed with oil to the point where it was a hazard to drive and was parked. Abandoned for nearly 10 years it sat and deteriorated. When I purchased the car a mechanic friend of mine had spent quite a bit of time draining the old fuel removing 5 quarts of extra oil and replacing most fuel lines. It started and ran fine. Surprisingly no smoke at all although you could hear the tell tale signs of broken head studs. Further evaluation showed 4 exhaust studs needing replacement.
So now I have this C4 and I have no idea what to do with it. I had been tracking my 1993 C2 which is a fun car to drive at speed. Although I am at the point it either needed to be taken to the next level or reverted back to stock. I had no problem doing this when it wasn’t worth much but now that values are increasing I had to think differently. The car had just turned 60k miles. Everything works as it should leak down and compression numbers are spot on and it is a great car. So the decision was made the C2 gets returned to street use and the C4 becomes the new track car.
The beauty of this project is that whatever I need to build this track car works in my favor. If a part is needed I buy new and it is used on either the C2 or my turbo and the parts get handed down to the tack car. It is a win win across the board.
As much as I love my 94 turbo 3.6 my dream has always been to own a 1994 3.8 RS/RSR although these are not street cars in the US and even today my turbo barely covers a deposit to buy one. So this track build started as a 3.8 RS clone. Well as things would have it my dreams far exceeded my budget and the cost associated with a proper 3.8 build were staggering. So that unfortunately was the first thing to go. As luck would have it I happened upon a 993 varioram engine with a protomotive low boost twin turbo charged stage 2 with the worlds largest intercooler. It comes complete with RS clutch 6 speed 993 transaxle with short gear ratios and a guard 40/60 racing LSD. Although it was not my original direction it fit perfectly into my budget. The engine had been refreshed recently and has all the extras I would have had to pay up for already installed.
So my focus was on selling off the old parts and sourcing wide body parts. Thanks to Track Racer I quickly sold off the extra body parts. Now I began to discover how difficult it is to source wide body parts. It appears with all the parted out narrow body cars parts are cheap but turbos were small production numbers and most remain due to their higher market value. So when you come across factory parts they are prohibitively expensive. What I also learned was the distinct change in the 964 from 1990 to 1991. Porsche had retained many small parts on the 964 from the earlier torsion bar cars. It is not just the flag mirrors and other obvious bits but the myriad of little parts that make this build difficult. In hindsight looking for a 1991 or newer would have been far easier to convert but there is no turning back now.
I begin this thread with a bit of the past mixed with where I am today. I will fill in the middle a little at a time. I met a lot of great people through rennlist and PP discussing options and sourcing parts. A few whackos as well but that I will save for another thread.
So here is the car as I first received it. Some pictures from the beginning and as I go along, and as the car currently stands.
There is a lot to cover and my focus is on getting this project completed but for now I figured I would start this thread instead of dropping tidbits elsewhere.
Please feel free to comment. Do understand this is a DE only car and not being built for PCA racing. It is for pure pleasure and my wife drives it as well so it will be full of compromises.
I hope I express what I am doing properly and it has been a tremendous amount of work so far. I am doing the majority of the work myself and although I know these cars well there is always more to learn and until you completely disassemble and reassemble them it is amazing what you realize you did not know.
BTW for the record I have done complete ground up restorations on earlier long nose 911’s, SC’s and 914’s this is my first 964 build other than conversions on my other cars and this includes rebuilding every aspect of the cars from engines to interiors. From what I have been told my 914 sold for over $20k which to me means I must have done something correct.
Enjoy
10-03-2014, 11:32 AM
#2
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
Bad repair led to the cars demise
Oil line improperly repaired causing a mess.
10-03-2014, 11:34 AM
#3
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
Begining the tear down
Exploration of the engine showed 4 broken head studs
I wanted to add that all the 91 and newer 964's I have worked on had aluminum valve covers. It appears the older cars have magnesium covers as shown here.
I wanted to add that all the 91 and newer 964's I have worked on had aluminum valve covers. It appears the older cars have magnesium covers as shown here.
10-03-2014, 11:39 AM
#4
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
Interior removal
For all of you that have done this before you know what a PITA it is. After removing the mess then the fun begins. Removing the glue is a nightmare job. Although not the healthiest approach I soaked rags with straight xylene and placed it over the glue. After a small amount of time the glue just rolls off
Last edited by cobalt; 04-15-2018 at 08:26 AM.
10-03-2014, 11:46 AM
#5
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
Jumping ahead for now
I have to head down to the body shop but here is where i am now. My good friend Pino From Milan auto painters (soon to be featured in Excellence magazine) is doing the body and paint work on the project. Something I have the skill for but little patience for. It also is better to have an environment suited to make a huge mess.
Pino does everything by hand the old fashioned way. The car is being long boarded and no machines are used. This will look like a factory wide body when he is done. It will actually be too nice for a track car but being a diehard Concours guy I am Ok with that.
Pino does everything by hand the old fashioned way. The car is being long boarded and no machines are used. This will look like a factory wide body when he is done. It will actually be too nice for a track car but being a diehard Concours guy I am Ok with that.
10-03-2014, 11:51 AM
#7
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
As of yesterday
As I said car is being long board sanded and is a time consuming skill that will make for a perfect finish when painted.
The car is first sprayed with a dark color to show all the low spots as you sand. Microscopic differences even the hand cannot feel.
The car is first sprayed with a dark color to show all the low spots as you sand. Microscopic differences even the hand cannot feel.
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10-03-2014, 11:52 AM
#8
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
10-03-2014, 12:04 PM
#11
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
Yes it is. I have no place to put the seats so they fit perfectly in folding chairs until I am ready to install them. keeps them off the floor and they are very comfortable when admiring the work.
10-03-2014, 12:07 PM
#13
Drifting
10-03-2014, 01:00 PM
#14
Rennlist Member
. . . There is a lot to cover and my focus is on getting this project completed but for now I figured I would start this thread instead of dropping tidbits elsewhere.
I hope I express what I am doing properly and it has been a tremendous amount of work so far. I am doing the majority of the work myself and although I know these cars well there is always more to learn and until you completely disassemble and reassemble them it is amazing what you realize you did not know.
BTW for the record I have done complete ground up restorations on earlier long nose 911’s, SC’s and 914’s this is my first 964 build other than conversions on my other cars and this includes rebuilding every aspect of the cars from engines to interiors . . .
BTW for the record I have done complete ground up restorations on earlier long nose 911’s, SC’s and 914’s this is my first 964 build other than conversions on my other cars and this includes rebuilding every aspect of the cars from engines to interiors . . .
10-03-2014, 05:14 PM
#15
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
Jumping back a bit
I removed the sunroof from the car and it was more work than anticipated. Followed standard removal procedures until I realized someone had stripped the cables and permanently secured the sunroof to the car. I could not move it and it was a real problem. Not sure how they did it even after I removed it. They somehow bolted it in place with no access to the bolt heads. I removed the inside panel to gain access eventually I just got tired and started cutting.
This worked out well in the end since I used the metal from the sunroof to fabricate the plugs that were needed to fill the opening for the ventilation system.
I purchased the filler panel from Fenn Lane in the UK. It was a nice piece a bit pricey for what it was but I did not want to use a CF or glass roof. Instead of spot welding it we welded it completely around. This should prevent any flex and future paint cracking. Initial filler was aluminum based and should also help with any future cracking. It did not take much filler and the template they supply helped to set the roof properly in place. Once it was welded the roof no longer sagged and is rigid like it should be. Amazing how flimsy the car feels when there is just the cut open metal.
This worked out well in the end since I used the metal from the sunroof to fabricate the plugs that were needed to fill the opening for the ventilation system.
I purchased the filler panel from Fenn Lane in the UK. It was a nice piece a bit pricey for what it was but I did not want to use a CF or glass roof. Instead of spot welding it we welded it completely around. This should prevent any flex and future paint cracking. Initial filler was aluminum based and should also help with any future cracking. It did not take much filler and the template they supply helped to set the roof properly in place. Once it was welded the roof no longer sagged and is rigid like it should be. Amazing how flimsy the car feels when there is just the cut open metal.