Purchase question - to buy or not to buy?
03-10-2014, 02:52 AM
#1
Banned
Thread Starter
Purchase question - to buy or not to buy?
Hey folks,
I know it's my first post here, but I've been a lurker for a while. I feel like I'm in a unique enough position that it warrants a new thread and might have some good info for future non-porsche owners who want to become ones.
Anyway, I have the opportunity to buy a 91 964 cab for (he's asking 12.5K). The convertible top doesn't close (he said it went up while driving and snapped some metal poles in the top), and the interior basically needs a gut-rehab since the top was down and he had put a tarp over the car and basically there's water everywhere. He told me today that he pulled out all the insulation because he couldn't get the water logged there out.
So I'm figuring I'll have to totally re-do the interior and fix the top.
Also when he first started the car, light smoke came out the tail pipe until the engine warmed up. He said that was common, and a little bit of oil was spurting out from somewhere near the exhaust.
He had a shop in Seattle look at it before making a 500 mile trip in the car and they said it was in decent condition and compression was fine in all but 1 cylinder, and even that one wasn't too far off.
Driving it was awesome, and it seems the clutch is in good condition. AC is disconnected, so no idea if it works. The doors lock and unlock randomly. Power windows don't work. I guess the list of things that are wrong with this car could be quite extensive.
That said, any idea how much I would be looking at being all in if I wanted to restore it to a cool, yet workable condition? I would probably replace the seats and most of the interior (I looked at parts, not sure if OEM or not, but price list for most of everything except the seats was around 2K). Engine (104K miles) seems to be in decent shape.
What I'm ideally looking for is a starter car that won't leave me stranded or become a money sink hole. Am I totally deluding myself into thinking that this could be a good candidate for that?
FYI, I'm pretty handy, so I'd likely do a lot of the interior work myself, assuming that's possible. Mechanically, I don't think I'd trust myself to do anything on this car besides maybe an oil change.
Any thoughts or anecdotes greatly appreciated.
Best,
DC
I know it's my first post here, but I've been a lurker for a while. I feel like I'm in a unique enough position that it warrants a new thread and might have some good info for future non-porsche owners who want to become ones.
Anyway, I have the opportunity to buy a 91 964 cab for (he's asking 12.5K). The convertible top doesn't close (he said it went up while driving and snapped some metal poles in the top), and the interior basically needs a gut-rehab since the top was down and he had put a tarp over the car and basically there's water everywhere. He told me today that he pulled out all the insulation because he couldn't get the water logged there out.
So I'm figuring I'll have to totally re-do the interior and fix the top.
Also when he first started the car, light smoke came out the tail pipe until the engine warmed up. He said that was common, and a little bit of oil was spurting out from somewhere near the exhaust.
He had a shop in Seattle look at it before making a 500 mile trip in the car and they said it was in decent condition and compression was fine in all but 1 cylinder, and even that one wasn't too far off.
Driving it was awesome, and it seems the clutch is in good condition. AC is disconnected, so no idea if it works. The doors lock and unlock randomly. Power windows don't work. I guess the list of things that are wrong with this car could be quite extensive.
That said, any idea how much I would be looking at being all in if I wanted to restore it to a cool, yet workable condition? I would probably replace the seats and most of the interior (I looked at parts, not sure if OEM or not, but price list for most of everything except the seats was around 2K). Engine (104K miles) seems to be in decent shape.
What I'm ideally looking for is a starter car that won't leave me stranded or become a money sink hole. Am I totally deluding myself into thinking that this could be a good candidate for that?
FYI, I'm pretty handy, so I'd likely do a lot of the interior work myself, assuming that's possible. Mechanically, I don't think I'd trust myself to do anything on this car besides maybe an oil change.
Any thoughts or anecdotes greatly appreciated.
Best,
DC
03-10-2014, 03:12 AM
#2
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Lots of unanswered questions about the rest of the car...let alone what might be lurking inside from water damage. If the rest of the car is solid and you have not had damage to electrical components such as the DME (sits under the drivers seat) then $12.5K is pretty cheap. Only a PPI from a good (and independent) shop can tell you for sure what you are looking at.
BTW the metal poles that snapped sounds like the bows (see 1 and (1) in this drawing). Pretty common failure when things go horribly wrong with the top but sadly a problem that is completely avoidable. These parts are expensive and hard to find and if you search around there are people that have had them repaired.
BTW the metal poles that snapped sounds like the bows (see 1 and (1) in this drawing). Pretty common failure when things go horribly wrong with the top but sadly a problem that is completely avoidable. These parts are expensive and hard to find and if you search around there are people that have had them repaired.
03-10-2014, 03:19 AM
#3
Banned
Thread Starter
Thanks for the response - I knew that oil leakage was a pretty common issue for this car, so I was particularly cognizant of that when looking at it myself. Will definitely have a PPI done if we decide to proceed to get the low down on the rest of the car, particularly the mechanics. I'm pretty much assuming the electronics are shot...
03-10-2014, 03:27 AM
#4
Banned
Thread Starter
I just checked and it seems the DME is a $30 part that pretty much everyone says just carry a spare around for. Is that what you're referring to? Or is it the entire fuse box?
Also, the PO installed a whale tail - which I think looks cool, but wondering why it seems nobody else has one on their 964s!
Also, the PO installed a whale tail - which I think looks cool, but wondering why it seems nobody else has one on their 964s!
03-10-2014, 03:30 AM
#5
Three Wheelin'
If you do a bit of research to see what these go for when in good general working order and you have the budget to make up the difference, plus 25% to 50% more for upgrades, then it could be a good deal.
Of course, it might only be a few thousand to get her in good working order and suitable for you to start driving, but, it depends on what you are prepared to accept as the list only gets longer, the deeper you delve!
Be prepared to spend and keep spending if you want a perfect car, but then that can be spread over a number of years once she's back in good order.
Of course, it might only be a few thousand to get her in good working order and suitable for you to start driving, but, it depends on what you are prepared to accept as the list only gets longer, the deeper you delve!
Be prepared to spend and keep spending if you want a perfect car, but then that can be spread over a number of years once she's back in good order.
03-10-2014, 07:24 AM
#6
Rennlist Member
You need to get a PPI from a qualified Porsche Independent, so you can accurately access what the car will cost you.Add that to the amount it will cost to restore the interior and top,air conditioning, include labor if you can't do it yourself. Then make a decision.Cars in good condition, seem to be selling for 20k to 30k. Low millage cars are usually higher.
03-10-2014, 10:24 AM
#7
I just checked and it seems the DME is a $30 part that pretty much everyone says just carry a spare around for. Is that what you're referring to? Or is it the entire fuse box?
Also, the PO installed a whale tail - which I think looks cool, but wondering why it seems nobody else has one on their 964s!
Also, the PO installed a whale tail - which I think looks cool, but wondering why it seems nobody else has one on their 964s!
I'd have a thorough inspection of the car before you think of buying. Could be a nice intro/fixer upper or a money pit.
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03-10-2014, 12:26 PM
#8
water and electrical components... never a good thing. I'd be worried about all those sensors and relays that have been wet and dried out, rinse and repeat...The DME relay, as pointed out, is the cheap thing. The actual DME if the large box the relay is connected to, and is a far larger outlay of cash if the original is trash. Not sure how much new carpets run,, plus new seats and assorted switches with the seats. If this were a coupe, you could strip a lot out and make a light weight version of the car, but cabs aren't the likely candidate for that sort of project.
03-10-2014, 01:13 PM
#9
Banned
Thread Starter
What I'm hearing is I need to do a good PPI. I guess what I'm also wondering, given you all own and drive this particular car is how reliable can I expect it to be if I invest the money into it? I'm not retired (I'm 28) and work long hours and have a wife to boot, so given what you know about the car, would I be making a terrible mistake?
If we were talking about a ferrari of the same vintage, I'd wouldn't even need to ask advice - but Porsche's are known for better build quality and engineering, so I figure some helpful insight would be great.
If we were talking about a ferrari of the same vintage, I'd wouldn't even need to ask advice - but Porsche's are known for better build quality and engineering, so I figure some helpful insight would be great.
Last edited by dhc905; 03-10-2014 at 01:45 PM.
03-10-2014, 02:12 PM
#10
Banned
Thread Starter
[QUOTE=dhc905;11200615]What I'm hearing is I need to do a good PPI. I guess what I'm also wondering, given you all own and drive this particular car is how reliable can I expect it to be if I invest the money into it? I'm not retired (I'm 28) and work long hours and have a wife to boot, so given what you know about the car, would I be making a terrible mistake?
If we were talking about a ferrari of the same vintage, I'd wouldn't even need to ask advice - but Porsche's are known for better build quality and engineering, so I figure some helpful insight would be great.
Here are some pictures btw:
Front bumper is kind of screwed up - has paint peeling.
If we were talking about a ferrari of the same vintage, I'd wouldn't even need to ask advice - but Porsche's are known for better build quality and engineering, so I figure some helpful insight would be great.
Here are some pictures btw:
Front bumper is kind of screwed up - has paint peeling.
03-10-2014, 04:10 PM
#12
Banned
Thread Starter
I'd want to stay, all in, for 18-20K preferably. I'd be more than happy to do some of the interior work myself and source parts as they come through. I don't want a show car, but at the same time I don't want to spend a ton of money and/or time just to keep the thing running...
03-10-2014, 10:53 PM
#13
Three Wheelin'
With regular maintenance the cars are extremely reliable...I've had mine for 16 years and it has never let me down.
As everyone has said, a thorough PPI is critical. Depending on what the PPI uncovers you could easily spend more than your target of $18-20K all in (unless you can do a lot of the work yourself).
I would also wonder why the whale tail....was it for "looks", or to replace a damaged rear lid??
As everyone has said, a thorough PPI is critical. Depending on what the PPI uncovers you could easily spend more than your target of $18-20K all in (unless you can do a lot of the work yourself).
I would also wonder why the whale tail....was it for "looks", or to replace a damaged rear lid??
03-11-2014, 12:22 AM
#14
Banned
Thread Starter
Got it. Do you think it's even worth doing a PPI? I'll be out $150 or so when it seems that the consensus here is that there's a greater than 50/50 chance this thing is a wreck. I can only foresee it making sense if I'm getting a fantastic deal to start with in which case if I do end up spending 10k, I'm still below my 18-20k budget.
From the sounds of it, just the DME and top may cost me 4-5k and I still have a basically start from scratch interior, which I can easily sink another 4-5k into and I haven't even touched the clutch or engine...
From the sounds of it, just the DME and top may cost me 4-5k and I still have a basically start from scratch interior, which I can easily sink another 4-5k into and I haven't even touched the clutch or engine...
Lots of unanswered questions about the rest of the car...let alone what might be lurking inside from water damage. If the rest of the car is solid and you have not had damage to electrical components such as the DME (sits under the drivers seat) then $12.5K is pretty cheap. Only a PPI from a good (and independent) shop can tell you for sure what you are looking at.
BTW the metal poles that snapped sounds like the bows (see 1 and (1) in this drawing). Pretty common failure when things go horribly wrong with the top but sadly a problem that is completely avoidable. These parts are expensive and hard to find and if you search around there are people that have had them repaired.
BTW the metal poles that snapped sounds like the bows (see 1 and (1) in this drawing). Pretty common failure when things go horribly wrong with the top but sadly a problem that is completely avoidable. These parts are expensive and hard to find and if you search around there are people that have had them repaired.
With regular maintenance the cars are extremely reliable...I've had mine for 16 years and it has never let me down.
As everyone has said, a thorough PPI is critical. Depending on what the PPI uncovers you could easily spend more than your target of $18-20K all in (unless you can do a lot of the work yourself).
I would also wonder why the whale tail....was it for "looks", or to replace a damaged rear lid??
As everyone has said, a thorough PPI is critical. Depending on what the PPI uncovers you could easily spend more than your target of $18-20K all in (unless you can do a lot of the work yourself).
I would also wonder why the whale tail....was it for "looks", or to replace a damaged rear lid??
03-11-2014, 12:42 AM
#15
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It's worth doing a PPI if you are seriously considering buying the car... the couple hundred you may spend with a PPI could discover thousands in repairs a car may need that the current owner may have no clue about, which would either save you the headache of buying a car that needs a ton of work or you can further negotiable with owner based on the PPI results.