Purchase question - to buy or not to buy?
05-12-2014, 09:50 PM
#61
Banned
Thread Starter
PPI complete. Will provide a more thorough update when I get back from dinner, but interested to hear your guy's opinions. At this point it's just a matter of pricing, and not whether I move forward with it or not. The car was just too damn sexy sitting at the garage.
30K feet: mechanicals are great, electronics not totally shot. Clutch is "so so" but manageable.
So yeah, I'm pretty excited.
30K feet: mechanicals are great, electronics not totally shot. Clutch is "so so" but manageable.
So yeah, I'm pretty excited.
05-13-2014, 02:15 AM
#62
Banned
Thread Starter
So,
PPI reveals:
Timing chain covers are leaking, minor leakage coming from upper and lower valve covers, evidence of minor leakage coming form cylinders 1-3 and 6.
Alternator and fan belts are ok. No Transaxal oil leaks.
Clutch feels so so with some popping out of 3rd gear a couple of times.
Brakes and pads are 90%. Recent brake fluid flush, 1% contaimination.
Steering rods in good conditionm rack is not leaking. Suspension and shocks are good.
CV joints and boots are torn.
Heating works, AC doesn't (belts are removed from compressor).
Low pitched horn not functioning.
Windshield wipers non-functional.
Power seats function perfectly except driver's rear up down. Motor turns, but nothing happens.
Power locks and windows generally non-operable.
Power mirrors work.
Rear brake, running and side marker lights are inoperative.
Compression: 1 - 180, 2 - 200 3 - 185 4 - 190 5 - 195 6 - 190
Air bag faults: 55 - Ignition pill circuit resistance, 49 - Ignition pill circuit open circuit. Potentially spiral spring or airbag control unit.
Basically all the blowers: 1. Rear blower temp sensor, defrost flap motor, footwell flap motor, fresh air flap motor, left mixing flap motor, right mixing flap motor, rear blower motor stage 2, condenser blower motor, oil cooler blower motor, rear blower motor stage 11, inside sensor motor.
So what are your thoughts? Besides the body issues, and convertible top issue, I'd say there's roughly 4K of identifyable issues here. But nothing major and things that can be done one at a time. There's some wildcards - namely the stupid windshield wipers that can be anywhere from a $5 fuse to $1,300 parts and labor to do the motor and some rod thingy.
PPI reveals:
Timing chain covers are leaking, minor leakage coming from upper and lower valve covers, evidence of minor leakage coming form cylinders 1-3 and 6.
Alternator and fan belts are ok. No Transaxal oil leaks.
Clutch feels so so with some popping out of 3rd gear a couple of times.
Brakes and pads are 90%. Recent brake fluid flush, 1% contaimination.
Steering rods in good conditionm rack is not leaking. Suspension and shocks are good.
CV joints and boots are torn.
Heating works, AC doesn't (belts are removed from compressor).
Low pitched horn not functioning.
Windshield wipers non-functional.
Power seats function perfectly except driver's rear up down. Motor turns, but nothing happens.
Power locks and windows generally non-operable.
Power mirrors work.
Rear brake, running and side marker lights are inoperative.
Compression: 1 - 180, 2 - 200 3 - 185 4 - 190 5 - 195 6 - 190
Air bag faults: 55 - Ignition pill circuit resistance, 49 - Ignition pill circuit open circuit. Potentially spiral spring or airbag control unit.
Basically all the blowers: 1. Rear blower temp sensor, defrost flap motor, footwell flap motor, fresh air flap motor, left mixing flap motor, right mixing flap motor, rear blower motor stage 2, condenser blower motor, oil cooler blower motor, rear blower motor stage 11, inside sensor motor.
So what are your thoughts? Besides the body issues, and convertible top issue, I'd say there's roughly 4K of identifyable issues here. But nothing major and things that can be done one at a time. There's some wildcards - namely the stupid windshield wipers that can be anywhere from a $5 fuse to $1,300 parts and labor to do the motor and some rod thingy.
05-13-2014, 09:46 AM
#63
When you consider the repairs, error on the expensive side for everything so you might be pleasantly surprised.
I estimated what mine would be worth in excellent condition and then started subtracting value for each item on the list of things that needed to be done. I even included a top end rebuild in case something catastrophic happened. My purchase price was below the bottom line so I felt comfortable with moving forward.
Maybe try the same and see where you end up. Pretty simple exercise.
I estimated what mine would be worth in excellent condition and then started subtracting value for each item on the list of things that needed to be done. I even included a top end rebuild in case something catastrophic happened. My purchase price was below the bottom line so I felt comfortable with moving forward.
Maybe try the same and see where you end up. Pretty simple exercise.
05-13-2014, 12:06 PM
#64
Banned
Thread Starter
That's kind of a dangerous game to play. I had the mechanic price everything out to get back to excellent condition and if I throw in a top end rebuild, I think the seller is going to have to pay me to take the car!
The way I figure - it's worth 20K in good condition. Almost immediately I'm starting to get into used Kia terroritory on pricing when I figure in any of the stuff listed above. 2K for the blowers/AC. 2K for the top repair. 1.3K for the windshield wipers. Power seats 1K. Airbag anywhere from $500-$5,000 (spring or control unit), tires 600 (2x), body work 2K, interior work 2K.
So depending on the airbag issue, I should be paying him anywhere between 4K and 9K for the car, which I don't even think is fair.
Oh and if I throw in a 10K rebuild, he should be paying me somewhere between 1 and 6K
The way I figure - it's worth 20K in good condition. Almost immediately I'm starting to get into used Kia terroritory on pricing when I figure in any of the stuff listed above. 2K for the blowers/AC. 2K for the top repair. 1.3K for the windshield wipers. Power seats 1K. Airbag anywhere from $500-$5,000 (spring or control unit), tires 600 (2x), body work 2K, interior work 2K.
So depending on the airbag issue, I should be paying him anywhere between 4K and 9K for the car, which I don't even think is fair.
Oh and if I throw in a 10K rebuild, he should be paying me somewhere between 1 and 6K
05-13-2014, 12:55 PM
#65
So,
PPI reveals:
Timing chain covers are leaking, minor leakage coming from upper and lower valve covers, evidence of minor leakage coming form cylinders 1-3 and 6.
Alternator and fan belts are ok. No Transaxal oil leaks.
Clutch feels so so with some popping out of 3rd gear a couple of times.
Brakes and pads are 90%. Recent brake fluid flush, 1% contaimination.
Steering rods in good conditionm rack is not leaking. Suspension and shocks are good.
CV joints and boots are torn.
Heating works, AC doesn't (belts are removed from compressor).
Low pitched horn not functioning.
Windshield wipers non-functional.
Power seats function perfectly except driver's rear up down. Motor turns, but nothing happens.
Power locks and windows generally non-operable.
Power mirrors work.
Rear brake, running and side marker lights are inoperative.
Compression: 1 - 180, 2 - 200 3 - 185 4 - 190 5 - 195 6 - 190
Air bag faults: 55 - Ignition pill circuit resistance, 49 - Ignition pill circuit open circuit. Potentially spiral spring or airbag control unit.
Basically all the blowers: 1. Rear blower temp sensor, defrost flap motor, footwell flap motor, fresh air flap motor, left mixing flap motor, right mixing flap motor, rear blower motor stage 2, condenser blower motor, oil cooler blower motor, rear blower motor stage 11, inside sensor motor.
So what are your thoughts? Besides the body issues, and convertible top issue, I'd say there's roughly 4K of identifyable issues here. But nothing major and things that can be done one at a time. There's some wildcards - namely the stupid windshield wipers that can be anywhere from a $5 fuse to $1,300 parts and labor to do the motor and some rod thingy.
PPI reveals:
Timing chain covers are leaking, minor leakage coming from upper and lower valve covers, evidence of minor leakage coming form cylinders 1-3 and 6.
Alternator and fan belts are ok. No Transaxal oil leaks.
Clutch feels so so with some popping out of 3rd gear a couple of times.
Brakes and pads are 90%. Recent brake fluid flush, 1% contaimination.
Steering rods in good conditionm rack is not leaking. Suspension and shocks are good.
CV joints and boots are torn.
Heating works, AC doesn't (belts are removed from compressor).
Low pitched horn not functioning.
Windshield wipers non-functional.
Power seats function perfectly except driver's rear up down. Motor turns, but nothing happens.
Power locks and windows generally non-operable.
Power mirrors work.
Rear brake, running and side marker lights are inoperative.
Compression: 1 - 180, 2 - 200 3 - 185 4 - 190 5 - 195 6 - 190
Air bag faults: 55 - Ignition pill circuit resistance, 49 - Ignition pill circuit open circuit. Potentially spiral spring or airbag control unit.
Basically all the blowers: 1. Rear blower temp sensor, defrost flap motor, footwell flap motor, fresh air flap motor, left mixing flap motor, right mixing flap motor, rear blower motor stage 2, condenser blower motor, oil cooler blower motor, rear blower motor stage 11, inside sensor motor.
So what are your thoughts? Besides the body issues, and convertible top issue, I'd say there's roughly 4K of identifyable issues here. But nothing major and things that can be done one at a time. There's some wildcards - namely the stupid windshield wipers that can be anywhere from a $5 fuse to $1,300 parts and labor to do the motor and some rod thingy.
That's kind of a dangerous game to play. I had the mechanic price everything out to get back to excellent condition and if I throw in a top end rebuild, I think the seller is going to have to pay me to take the car!
The way I figure - it's worth 20K in good condition. Almost immediately I'm starting to get into used Kia terroritory on pricing when I figure in any of the stuff listed above. 2K for the blowers/AC. 2K for the top repair. 1.3K for the windshield wipers. Power seats 1K. Airbag anywhere from $500-$5,000 (spring or control unit), tires 600 (2x), body work 2K, interior work 2K.
So depending on the airbag issue, I should be paying him anywhere between 4K and 9K for the car, which I don't even think is fair.
Oh and if I throw in a 10K rebuild, he should be paying me somewhere between 1 and 6K
The way I figure - it's worth 20K in good condition. Almost immediately I'm starting to get into used Kia terroritory on pricing when I figure in any of the stuff listed above. 2K for the blowers/AC. 2K for the top repair. 1.3K for the windshield wipers. Power seats 1K. Airbag anywhere from $500-$5,000 (spring or control unit), tires 600 (2x), body work 2K, interior work 2K.
So depending on the airbag issue, I should be paying him anywhere between 4K and 9K for the car, which I don't even think is fair.
Oh and if I throw in a 10K rebuild, he should be paying me somewhere between 1 and 6K
With all the electrical not working and it being a convertible...I would pull out the seats and take a look under the carpet for signs of water damage/corrosion and check the condition of your wires down there. your problems may be bigger than fuses as you could have had standing water and killed the electrical system.
It comes down to how much you want this car and how much time and money you want to invest. Unfortunately the value of these cars isn't based on what you or I realistically think is should be worth based on condition, it is what the buyer can get for it. In this market "Good" cars are going for well above 30K, where as cars that require working out various issues are now being sold above the 20K mark. If you decide to jump on this car and he is willing to work on the price in the neighborhood of what your are thinking than I wish you the best...but this car sounds like it is going to take time, patience, and money - But sometimes those are the things that bring us the most joy.
05-13-2014, 01:37 PM
#66
Addict
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
I am confused how you say mechanicals are great and electrical not totally shot in a car that almost none of the electrical items (windows, door locks, horn, windshield wiper, etc.) work and mechanically it has a problem with the top, engine seals, ac unit, CV joints, etc.
With all the electrical not working and it being a convertible...I would pull out the seats and take a look under the carpet for signs of water damage/corrosion and check the condition of your wires down there. Your problems may be bigger than fuses as you could have had standing water and killed the electrical system.
With all the electrical not working and it being a convertible...I would pull out the seats and take a look under the carpet for signs of water damage/corrosion and check the condition of your wires down there. Your problems may be bigger than fuses as you could have had standing water and killed the electrical system.
Sounds like he's committed to buying the car, so it's just a matter of spending the $$$
05-13-2014, 03:24 PM
#67
Banned
Thread Starter
I guess everything needs to be conditioned - the mechanicals and electricals are not totally shot given the fact that water was inside and I don't have a service history and this is a 23 year old car and it's a porsche 911.
My perspective is if the thing drives and doesn't need 10K of service in the immediate future, it's going to be worth it. Maybe it's me, but at this price point I'm really not assuming I'm getting a perfect vehicle, and furthermore I bet if you took your car in for a PPI they'd find a bunch of things wrong with it as well. It's just the nature of being an old car that isn't designed in the modern era.
The fact that essential components generally work (the engine, transmission, and exhaust) is what I expect from a 10-12K Porsche 911...
My perspective is if the thing drives and doesn't need 10K of service in the immediate future, it's going to be worth it. Maybe it's me, but at this price point I'm really not assuming I'm getting a perfect vehicle, and furthermore I bet if you took your car in for a PPI they'd find a bunch of things wrong with it as well. It's just the nature of being an old car that isn't designed in the modern era.
The fact that essential components generally work (the engine, transmission, and exhaust) is what I expect from a 10-12K Porsche 911...
I am confused how you say mechanicals are great and electrical not totally shot in a car that almost none of the electrical items (windows, door locks, horn, windshield wiper, etc.) work and mechanically it has a problem with the top, engine seals, ac unit, CV joints, etc.
With all the electrical not working and it being a convertible...I would pull out the seats and take a look under the carpet for signs of water damage/corrosion and check the condition of your wires down there. your problems may be bigger than fuses as you could have had standing water and killed the electrical system.
It comes down to how much you want this car and how much time and money you want to invest. Unfortunately the value of these cars isn't based on what you or I realistically think is should be worth based on condition, it is what the buyer can get for it. In this market "Good" cars are going for well above 30K, where as cars that require working out various issues are now being sold above the 20K mark. If you decide to jump on this car and he is willing to work on the price in the neighborhood of what your are thinking than I wish you the best...but this car sounds like it is going to take time, patience, and money - But sometimes those are the things that bring us the most joy.
With all the electrical not working and it being a convertible...I would pull out the seats and take a look under the carpet for signs of water damage/corrosion and check the condition of your wires down there. your problems may be bigger than fuses as you could have had standing water and killed the electrical system.
It comes down to how much you want this car and how much time and money you want to invest. Unfortunately the value of these cars isn't based on what you or I realistically think is should be worth based on condition, it is what the buyer can get for it. In this market "Good" cars are going for well above 30K, where as cars that require working out various issues are now being sold above the 20K mark. If you decide to jump on this car and he is willing to work on the price in the neighborhood of what your are thinking than I wish you the best...but this car sounds like it is going to take time, patience, and money - But sometimes those are the things that bring us the most joy.
05-14-2014, 07:17 AM
#69
I guess everything needs to be conditioned - the mechanicals and electricals are not totally shot given the fact that water was inside and I don't have a service history and this is a 23 year old car and it's a porsche 911.
My perspective is if the thing drives and doesn't need 10K of service in the immediate future, it's going to be worth it. Maybe it's me, but at this price point I'm really not assuming I'm getting a perfect vehicle, and furthermore I bet if you took your car in for a PPI they'd find a bunch of things wrong with it as well. It's just the nature of being an old car that isn't designed in the modern era.
The fact that essential components generally work (the engine, transmission, and exhaust) is what I expect from a 10-12K Porsche 911...
My perspective is if the thing drives and doesn't need 10K of service in the immediate future, it's going to be worth it. Maybe it's me, but at this price point I'm really not assuming I'm getting a perfect vehicle, and furthermore I bet if you took your car in for a PPI they'd find a bunch of things wrong with it as well. It's just the nature of being an old car that isn't designed in the modern era.
The fact that essential components generally work (the engine, transmission, and exhaust) is what I expect from a 10-12K Porsche 911...
You are fortunate to have the knowledge before hand about some of the issues, but I only wanted to caution you as the simple mechanical systems you talk about may not be as costly as a complete rework of the electrical system and associated components. You say as long as you don't have 10K of work in the immediate future to you it is worth it. I had similar thoughts and discovered a Great looking running targa that required 8-10K in mechanical upkeep and $$$$ in electrical and management systems.
Although I have a little time on RL, the community is really tight and there is so much knowledge here. If my past experiences could benefit someone in a similar situation I just wanted to pass along the info. Good luck with the project.
05-18-2014, 06:47 PM
#70
Banned
Thread Starter
Thanks dude, I appreciate it.
We'll see, but as of now, I'm under contract to buy pending the smog!
I also called a shop in Petaluma that claims to have a convertible top and front bumper that I can have painted. Will probably need to refinish the front hood as well. There's a scratch in there. And the windshield. It's going to be a project, but I'm hoping that I can get it looking good in due time.
Very excited!
We'll see, but as of now, I'm under contract to buy pending the smog!
I also called a shop in Petaluma that claims to have a convertible top and front bumper that I can have painted. Will probably need to refinish the front hood as well. There's a scratch in there. And the windshield. It's going to be a project, but I'm hoping that I can get it looking good in due time.
Very excited!
Last edited by dhc905; 05-19-2014 at 10:40 PM.
05-23-2014, 03:05 AM
#71
Banned
Thread Starter
Well, it's signed sealed, and after a super fun drive home, delivered.
Such an amazing car. Can't wait to fix the brake light and get it street legal!
Such an amazing car. Can't wait to fix the brake light and get it street legal!
05-23-2014, 03:41 AM
#73
Banned
Thread Starter