Singer on Jay Leno
#31
It is pretty amazing what an absolutely massive amount of press these cars have gotten in the last year. Makes me wonder how much of that price tag goes towards the branding/promotion of Singer vs. actual vehicle development. To be fair, though, it seems like they're still a fairly small company and have to charge exorbitant fees to build each car because every employee they have dedicates a ****load of hours to every one. Makes me wonder if they'll be sustainable in the longrun.
For now I like seeing press on them since they do have a lot of cool ideas to apply to 964s, stuff that I may apply to my own car in the future, albeit on a budget. It'd be interesting to see if they start making cabriolet/speedster models or maybe forced induction cars. I'm sure that's at least a few years away, but still.
For now I like seeing press on them since they do have a lot of cool ideas to apply to 964s, stuff that I may apply to my own car in the future, albeit on a budget. It'd be interesting to see if they start making cabriolet/speedster models or maybe forced induction cars. I'm sure that's at least a few years away, but still.
#32
Nordschleife Master
Besides the bespoke carbon fiber bodywork and use of high-end materials on the trimout/fit/finish, what other development does the car have?
Mechanically, it's very much Porsche parts bin and other well known builders and suppliers that are available to anyone w/ money in hand.
Mechanically, it's very much Porsche parts bin and other well known builders and suppliers that are available to anyone w/ money in hand.
#33
Singer makes a beautiful car that is put together on a level that it should be for a bespoke spare no expenses project. They are aesthetically pleasing and have an amazing build quality. They are exorbitantly priced, but they wouldn't make them if not for people that can spend that amount on what is a rolling work of art.
As Rob Dickinson has said, he can't afford one of his own cars. (yet)
As Rob Dickinson has said, he can't afford one of his own cars. (yet)
#34
Instructor
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singer video
http://www.streetfire.net/video/top-gear-20x05-20130728_part-1_2433051.htm
He tests a new porsche first then the Singer at 3 min 48 sec in
He tests a new porsche first then the Singer at 3 min 48 sec in
Last edited by porschapete91; 12-23-2013 at 09:44 PM. Reason: time
#36
Besides the bespoke carbon fiber bodywork and use of high-end materials on the trimout/fit/finish, what other development does the car have?
Mechanically, it's very much Porsche parts bin and other well known builders and suppliers that are available to anyone w/ money in hand.
Mechanically, it's very much Porsche parts bin and other well known builders and suppliers that are available to anyone w/ money in hand.
#38
Burning Brakes
I didn't sense any real passion in Jay's presentation of this car. Maybe he doesn't 'get' it. Actually I'm on the fence if I 'get' it.
To me these are absolutely gorgeous hot rods, but I look from the perspective of what ideas can I use, rather than lusting after owning one. They seem to be going to countries with money and no real historic Porsche connection e.g. Dubai and Indonesia. Like ordering a piece of art.
I don't want to take anything away from the car or the builders, but I'm more in the Magnus Walker camp, even though I'm a 964 tragic and he's a long hood and early Turbo man.
To me these are absolutely gorgeous hot rods, but I look from the perspective of what ideas can I use, rather than lusting after owning one. They seem to be going to countries with money and no real historic Porsche connection e.g. Dubai and Indonesia. Like ordering a piece of art.
I don't want to take anything away from the car or the builders, but I'm more in the Magnus Walker camp, even though I'm a 964 tragic and he's a long hood and early Turbo man.
#39
Burning Brakes
Besides the bespoke carbon fiber bodywork and use of high-end materials on the trimout/fit/finish, what other development does the car have?
Mechanically, it's very much Porsche parts bin and other well known builders and suppliers that are available to anyone w/ money in hand.
Mechanically, it's very much Porsche parts bin and other well known builders and suppliers that are available to anyone w/ money in hand.
#40
Nordschleife Master
The point I keep trying to make on other forums that I'm on (non-Porsche forums), is that you don't need to be a multi-millionaire w/ $500k to blow on a Singer in order to get in on the awesomeness that is a well-sorted, backdated, air-cooled Porsche. Not even close. The formula is basic as hell and small shops and DIYers have been doing it for a long time.
Unless you're the type of person who thinks "exclusivity, bespoke trim-out, impeccable fit and finish, modern GT comfort, aircraft grade insulation" and all kinds of other touchy-feely non-traditional terms when you're envisioning the perfect hot rod air-cooled 911.
Someone on another forum summarized my point well by saying, "give me Jack Olsen's car for a fraction of the price and I'd be just as happy."
Unless you're the type of person who thinks "exclusivity, bespoke trim-out, impeccable fit and finish, modern GT comfort, aircraft grade insulation" and all kinds of other touchy-feely non-traditional terms when you're envisioning the perfect hot rod air-cooled 911.
Someone on another forum summarized my point well by saying, "give me Jack Olsen's car for a fraction of the price and I'd be just as happy."
#41
Rennlist Member
The Singer 911, hmmm... It's great and an odd ball that one.
Let's look at it from a performance stand point. There's truly nothing ground breaking. The car performs no better than a very well tuned/ modified 964. In the UK market I would put a highly tuned 3.8 964 with the suspension and brakes to match at £ 45K.
Now the singer retails at what, £ 250K base price? My view is that the Singer is a truly gorgeous piece of work but at £ 200K more for those beautiful touches I can't help but think the 964 is beautiful enough.
Besides we buy these cars for the thrill of the ride first and foremost - so what you're left with is a car that performs as well as another highly modified 964 at £ 200K less.
Now what else can you buy with that money? Let's say, I don't know a 991 GT3 £ 100,540.00 incl. VAT Does that warrant the extra money over a £ 45K modified 964? Well performance wise - YES!
So to some up my point, the Singer price tag is one that is purely based on something that is subjective - aesthetics. Whereas a 991 GT3 price tag is based on something that isn't just subjective - it performs better than a 964 also.
But wow - isn't that Singer just gorgeous.
Let's look at it from a performance stand point. There's truly nothing ground breaking. The car performs no better than a very well tuned/ modified 964. In the UK market I would put a highly tuned 3.8 964 with the suspension and brakes to match at £ 45K.
Now the singer retails at what, £ 250K base price? My view is that the Singer is a truly gorgeous piece of work but at £ 200K more for those beautiful touches I can't help but think the 964 is beautiful enough.
Besides we buy these cars for the thrill of the ride first and foremost - so what you're left with is a car that performs as well as another highly modified 964 at £ 200K less.
Now what else can you buy with that money? Let's say, I don't know a 991 GT3 £ 100,540.00 incl. VAT Does that warrant the extra money over a £ 45K modified 964? Well performance wise - YES!
So to some up my point, the Singer price tag is one that is purely based on something that is subjective - aesthetics. Whereas a 991 GT3 price tag is based on something that isn't just subjective - it performs better than a 964 also.
But wow - isn't that Singer just gorgeous.
The Singer is a statement; I am very, very rich and I want it, that's it.
#42
Burning Brakes
The point I keep trying to make on other forums that I'm on (non-Porsche forums), is that you don't need to be a multi-millionaire w/ $500k to blow on a Singer in order to get in on the awesomeness that is a well-sorted, backdated, air-cooled Porsche. Not even close. The formula is basic as hell and small shops and DIYers have been doing it for a long time.
Unless you're the type of person who thinks "exclusivity, bespoke trim-out, impeccable fit and finish, modern GT comfort, aircraft grade insulation" and all kinds of other touchy-feely non-traditional terms when you're envisioning the perfect hot rod air-cooled 911.
Someone on another forum summarized my point well by saying, "give me Jack Olsen's car for a fraction of the price and I'd be just as happy."
Unless you're the type of person who thinks "exclusivity, bespoke trim-out, impeccable fit and finish, modern GT comfort, aircraft grade insulation" and all kinds of other touchy-feely non-traditional terms when you're envisioning the perfect hot rod air-cooled 911.
Someone on another forum summarized my point well by saying, "give me Jack Olsen's car for a fraction of the price and I'd be just as happy."
#43
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the Singer represents a restoration and a modification. Updating and backdating. A lot to consider.
A very expensive, labour intensive job.
It may still look just like an ordinary 911 with custom wheels and paint, which is why people scratch their head over the price. But it is more then that.
You would have to had an air cooled 911 restored to a high standard to understand the cost to build one and then to understand what additional modifications and one off parts cost if desired to throw them in on top of the build too.
You just cant go and buy those wheels and headlights for example. everything is high quality and custom built.
The concept of this build is to be an early air cooled 911, but with the latest air cooled 911 technology built into it for over the top performance.
You get your stainless window trim, long nose hood and Fuchs but with coil overs, big brakes and fuel injection!
It is like taking all the best air cooled 911s over the years and building them into one.
A very expensive, labour intensive job.
It may still look just like an ordinary 911 with custom wheels and paint, which is why people scratch their head over the price. But it is more then that.
You would have to had an air cooled 911 restored to a high standard to understand the cost to build one and then to understand what additional modifications and one off parts cost if desired to throw them in on top of the build too.
You just cant go and buy those wheels and headlights for example. everything is high quality and custom built.
The concept of this build is to be an early air cooled 911, but with the latest air cooled 911 technology built into it for over the top performance.
You get your stainless window trim, long nose hood and Fuchs but with coil overs, big brakes and fuel injection!
It is like taking all the best air cooled 911s over the years and building them into one.
#44
Pro
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Not buying it... Singer as a business proposition has the days numbered... At that price they'll run out of stupid rich people soon.
Even RUF, Gembala, etc.. sold stuff by parts not as a whole..
Singer is not an engineering company, just a boutique shop.
Love the cars but the price is not realistic. Slapping the arguably best parts doesn't mean you know what you're doing.
Even RUF, Gembala, etc.. sold stuff by parts not as a whole..
Singer is not an engineering company, just a boutique shop.
Love the cars but the price is not realistic. Slapping the arguably best parts doesn't mean you know what you're doing.
#45
Three Wheelin'
some may not like what they are doing,
but it is evident that they know what they are doing...
but it is evident that they know what they are doing...