Drop engine, reseal, still have oil leaks! (Cam housing to case / camshaft o-rings)
07-21-2013, 10:13 PM
#46
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
Gaskets, sealants, adhesives, lubricants, what to use? I referred to Wayne Dempsey's book, the Factory Workshop manual, and a often referenced post from Henry at Supertec Performance, a 911 engine rebuilding shop. I basically decided to follow Henry's guidance.
One of the magic things in life is that experience can help you grow.We have learned since the privious post that the best way to seal an engine case is with a series of glue in speciafic locations. We no longer use 574 to seal case halves.
Case sealing suggestions :
Outer case halves perimeter : Threebond 1194
Bearing web surfaces: Loctite 574
#8 Bearing O-Ring: Threebond 1211
Case Thru Bolts: Dow Corning 55 on Green Viton O-Rings
Flywheel Seal: dry
Front pulley Seal: dry
Intermediate Shaft Cover to Case: o-ring Dow 55, gasket style 574
Oil Breather Cover to Case: Loctite 574
Cylinders to Case: Curil T
Cam Towers to Cylinder Heads: Threebond 1104
Cam Chain Housings to Case: gaskets Loctite 574
Cam Chain Housings to Cam Towers: gasket Loctite 574
Cam Chain Housing Cover to Cam Chain Housing: Gasket Loctite574
Gaskets: Thin coat of Loctite 574
__________________
Henry Schmidt
SUPERTEC PERFORMANCE
Ph: 760-728-3062
Email: supertec1@earthlink.net
Case sealing suggestions :
Outer case halves perimeter : Threebond 1194
Bearing web surfaces: Loctite 574
#8 Bearing O-Ring: Threebond 1211
Case Thru Bolts: Dow Corning 55 on Green Viton O-Rings
Flywheel Seal: dry
Front pulley Seal: dry
Intermediate Shaft Cover to Case: o-ring Dow 55, gasket style 574
Oil Breather Cover to Case: Loctite 574
Cylinders to Case: Curil T
Cam Towers to Cylinder Heads: Threebond 1104
Cam Chain Housings to Case: gaskets Loctite 574
Cam Chain Housings to Cam Towers: gasket Loctite 574
Cam Chain Housing Cover to Cam Chain Housing: Gasket Loctite574
Gaskets: Thin coat of Loctite 574
__________________
Henry Schmidt
SUPERTEC PERFORMANCE
Ph: 760-728-3062
Email: supertec1@earthlink.net
07-21-2013, 10:18 PM
#47
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
The workshop manual tells you to apply Loctite 574 to both sides of the flat gasket on the end cap. Advice on the Pelican parts forum as well as this video shows you how to apply it with a roller.
07-21-2013, 11:07 PM
#48
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
..and continue
07-21-2013, 11:09 PM
#49
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
continues...
07-22-2013, 11:13 AM
#51
Instructor
Looks better than profesional, I doubt an average mechanic will do all this if it is not his own car. This is a labor of love kinda work.
07-22-2013, 11:54 AM
#52
Hey Guys,
Quick question for you all pros
I recently had an engine out service done on my '91 964 Turbo by a good reputable shop and unfortunately I experience an oil leak again
Shop took the car back and found out the RMS was leaking again. This time instead of replacing with Porsche OEM seal, we replaced it with Elring and so far I was told car is leak free.
Now the question is, I do not see the camshaft housing seal or the O-ring on the invoice. The shop was suppose to have changed/replaced all the seals/gaskits/O-rings/Lines/Tubes, you name it and I wanted to have them changed.
They did change the FMS/IMS/RMS along with Valve cover gaskits etc etc?
Could they have replaced it and not mention it on the invoice?
Is it a part of the stuff they already did?
Please help me understand this ^ oil leak.
Thanks
Quick question for you all pros
I recently had an engine out service done on my '91 964 Turbo by a good reputable shop and unfortunately I experience an oil leak again
Shop took the car back and found out the RMS was leaking again. This time instead of replacing with Porsche OEM seal, we replaced it with Elring and so far I was told car is leak free.
Now the question is, I do not see the camshaft housing seal or the O-ring on the invoice. The shop was suppose to have changed/replaced all the seals/gaskits/O-rings/Lines/Tubes, you name it and I wanted to have them changed.
They did change the FMS/IMS/RMS along with Valve cover gaskits etc etc?
Could they have replaced it and not mention it on the invoice?
Is it a part of the stuff they already did?
Please help me understand this ^ oil leak.
Thanks
07-22-2013, 03:18 PM
#54
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Excellent pictures as usual Ricardo!
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07-23-2013, 03:41 AM
#56
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
Guys,
A word on cam timing. I was hoping to not have to redo the camshaft timing but I think I need to look into this. I can see that my crankshaft moved when I was fiddling with getting the chain back into position around the camshaft sprocket. This means I screwed up my timing. I think I can restore my timing by resetting the crankshaft to TDC and re-installing the crankshaft sprocket and chain so my marks line up.
I may have to try and go in and do this right way. Its explained in Volume 1, section 15 of the workshop manual. I already have everything necessary except the auxiliary chain tensioner tool. $275 for that Porsche special tool 9401. Urgh. Although this tool may not be necessary as I see in a post someone else just using the engine chain tensioners but that must not push down as hard since the factory tool. The factory tool must simulate the tension when the engine is running and there is full oil pressure.
For you super hard core dudes following along more reference material here:
https://rennlist.com/forums/993-foru...ain-20-hp.html
You should see the setup Colin (The Ninemeister uses) in the above thread to do this.
http://www.pcarworkshop.com/index.ph..._timing_Part_I
http://www.pcarworkshop.com/index.ph...timing_Part_II
I am just so pissed I didn't look into these seals when I had the engine out. I have more hours working on this car than driving it.
A word on cam timing. I was hoping to not have to redo the camshaft timing but I think I need to look into this. I can see that my crankshaft moved when I was fiddling with getting the chain back into position around the camshaft sprocket. This means I screwed up my timing. I think I can restore my timing by resetting the crankshaft to TDC and re-installing the crankshaft sprocket and chain so my marks line up.
I may have to try and go in and do this right way. Its explained in Volume 1, section 15 of the workshop manual. I already have everything necessary except the auxiliary chain tensioner tool. $275 for that Porsche special tool 9401. Urgh. Although this tool may not be necessary as I see in a post someone else just using the engine chain tensioners but that must not push down as hard since the factory tool. The factory tool must simulate the tension when the engine is running and there is full oil pressure.
For you super hard core dudes following along more reference material here:
https://rennlist.com/forums/993-foru...ain-20-hp.html
You should see the setup Colin (The Ninemeister uses) in the above thread to do this.
http://www.pcarworkshop.com/index.ph..._timing_Part_I
http://www.pcarworkshop.com/index.ph...timing_Part_II
I am just so pissed I didn't look into these seals when I had the engine out. I have more hours working on this car than driving it.
Last edited by RicardoD; 07-23-2013 at 06:57 PM.
07-23-2013, 08:15 AM
#57
Burning Brakes
Guys,
A word on cam timing. I was hoping to not have to redo the camshaft timing but I think I need to look into this. I can see that my crankshaft moved when I was fiddling with getting the chain back into position around the camshaft sprocket. This means I screwed up my timing. I think I can restore my timing by resetting the crankshaft to TDC and re-installed the crankshaft sprocket and chain so my marks line up.
I think I may have to try and go in and do this right way. Its explained in Volume 1, section 15 of the workshop manual. I already have everything necessary except the auxiliary chain tensioner tool. $275 for that Porsche special tool 9401. Urgh. Although this tool not be necessary as I see in a post someone else just using the engine chain tensioners but that must not push down as hard since the factory tool which must simulate the tension when the engine is running and there is full oil pressure.
For you super hard core dudes following along more reference material here:
https://rennlist.com/forums/993-foru...ain-20-hp.html
You should see the setup Colin (The Ninemeister uses) in the above thread to do this.
http://www.pcarworkshop.com/index.ph..._timing_Part_I
http://www.pcarworkshop.com/index.ph...timing_Part_II
I am just so pissed I didn't look into these seals when I had the engine out. I have more hours working on this car than driving it.
A word on cam timing. I was hoping to not have to redo the camshaft timing but I think I need to look into this. I can see that my crankshaft moved when I was fiddling with getting the chain back into position around the camshaft sprocket. This means I screwed up my timing. I think I can restore my timing by resetting the crankshaft to TDC and re-installed the crankshaft sprocket and chain so my marks line up.
I think I may have to try and go in and do this right way. Its explained in Volume 1, section 15 of the workshop manual. I already have everything necessary except the auxiliary chain tensioner tool. $275 for that Porsche special tool 9401. Urgh. Although this tool not be necessary as I see in a post someone else just using the engine chain tensioners but that must not push down as hard since the factory tool which must simulate the tension when the engine is running and there is full oil pressure.
For you super hard core dudes following along more reference material here:
https://rennlist.com/forums/993-foru...ain-20-hp.html
You should see the setup Colin (The Ninemeister uses) in the above thread to do this.
http://www.pcarworkshop.com/index.ph..._timing_Part_I
http://www.pcarworkshop.com/index.ph...timing_Part_II
I am just so pissed I didn't look into these seals when I had the engine out. I have more hours working on this car than driving it.
Engine is out so might as well go through the motions. Maybe someone has the tool and will RennLend it to you. I'd send it your way if I had it.
The cam timing and the amount of time that I had my car apart (2 months) was the reason I didn't change out the gaskets your doing now when I did the chain case cover gaskets. My car has 72k on it and while the clutch seems to have a lot of life left, I know that I'll have to drop the engine in the future and will take care of those gasket at that time. It looks like I'm good to go for now since the chain case is dry.
Do it once, do it right.
07-23-2013, 11:00 AM
#58
Use a $10 brake pad spreader. But the hard part is getting the necessary amount of tension on the chains.
http://pcarworkshop.com/index.php/Ca..._timing_Part_I
http://pcarworkshop.com/index.php/Ca..._timing_Part_I
07-23-2013, 07:00 PM
#59
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
Use a $10 brake pad spreader. But the hard part is getting the necessary amount of tension on the chains.
http://pcarworkshop.com/index.php/Ca..._timing_Part_I
http://pcarworkshop.com/index.php/Ca..._timing_Part_I
https://rennlist.com/forums/7914403-post29.html
07-24-2013, 10:00 AM
#60
Guys,
A word on cam timing. I was hoping to not have to redo the camshaft timing but I think I need to look into this. I can see that my crankshaft moved when I was fiddling with getting the chain back into position around the camshaft sprocket. This means I screwed up my timing. I think I can restore my timing by resetting the crankshaft to TDC and re-installing the crankshaft sprocket and chain so my marks line up.
A word on cam timing. I was hoping to not have to redo the camshaft timing but I think I need to look into this. I can see that my crankshaft moved when I was fiddling with getting the chain back into position around the camshaft sprocket. This means I screwed up my timing. I think I can restore my timing by resetting the crankshaft to TDC and re-installing the crankshaft sprocket and chain so my marks line up.
Thanks!
Last edited by HalV; 07-24-2013 at 11:16 AM.