Engine rebuild needed...
Thread Starter
Three Wheelin'
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 1,286
Likes: 1
From: Putney, London
Engine rebuild needed...
So a while ago I suspected (and I think posted) about a possible need for a rebuild. Well now that need has become pretty evident.. the car smokes noticeably from the exhaust and is definitely burning oil.. to the tune of 1 litre per 700 miles (of mainly gentle driving). The car still pulls really well.. is the oil likely to be getting in through the rings or valve guides?
Also how long can I wait for a rebuild? I'm not exactly flush right now but I've been told that if you wait too long the liners can get scored adding extra expense if they need to be replaced.
Also any general advice would be appreciated. i'm pretty sure I will go to Redtek, having already spoken to Nick over there. I don't want to go for a 3.8 but might go for an RS cam..
Also how long can I wait for a rebuild? I'm not exactly flush right now but I've been told that if you wait too long the liners can get scored adding extra expense if they need to be replaced.
Also any general advice would be appreciated. i'm pretty sure I will go to Redtek, having already spoken to Nick over there. I don't want to go for a 3.8 but might go for an RS cam..
Burning Brakes
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 855
Likes: 17
From: North Yorkshire, England
Hi Jack,
It looks like a sooner or later thing, how many miles?
With mine, I voted for sooner. I thought I may as well have it done and enjoy it, even though I could have possible got another 20k miles, there wasn't any smoke but 1k miles per litre is normal.
You can be sure Nick will do a good job and he won't rip you off, ask him if you haven't already, he'll say if he thinks it's not really necessary . Maybe think about a compression test first.
Good luck,
Paul
It looks like a sooner or later thing, how many miles?
With mine, I voted for sooner. I thought I may as well have it done and enjoy it, even though I could have possible got another 20k miles, there wasn't any smoke but 1k miles per litre is normal.
You can be sure Nick will do a good job and he won't rip you off, ask him if you haven't already, he'll say if he thinks it's not really necessary . Maybe think about a compression test first.
Good luck,
Paul
Three Wheelin'
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 1,720
Likes: 5
From: West Sussex
If it hasn't had the top end done you may get away with just that. Mine had a jzm top end job about 20k ago and doesn't use any oil.
Of course if the mileage is high or you have bad leakdown no's you may want to open the case but otherwise a top end is 1/2 or 1/3 the price.
Of course if the mileage is high or you have bad leakdown no's you may want to open the case but otherwise a top end is 1/2 or 1/3 the price.
Rennlist Member
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 13,494
Likes: 827
From: Auckland, New Zealand.
My engine is apart due to self caused contamination in the oil. I hadn't owned the car for long before it happened do can't comment in oil usage, but it pulled well so no reason to think it was impaired. Anyway this is what the heads and cylinders look like at 136,000 km or 85,000 miles. The valve stem seals are gone on some cylinders, possibly leading to the coke deposits but otherwise the engine looks in very good condition. I wouldn't go to this extent unless I had to.
Thread Starter
Three Wheelin'
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 1,286
Likes: 1
From: Putney, London
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Burning Brakes
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 1,104
Likes: 231
From: Mainhatten / Frankfurt
If there's no bad noise, or other unhealthy ticks, i would wait until late autum and get it done without any stress.
Mine needed four month and costs nearly 10k€ with hotter cams and some other performance gadets...
It was worth every euro and mine was only leaking oil before...
Mine needed four month and costs nearly 10k€ with hotter cams and some other performance gadets...
It was worth every euro and mine was only leaking oil before...
Pro
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 529
Likes: 3
From: Cheshire, UK
Out of interest what are the factors which decide a top end rebuild? Mine had one at 90k with a previous owner and has an invoice of parts longer than Kays catalogue suggesting it wasn't just excessive oil use or a leak.
Addict
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Rennlist Member
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 1,629
Likes: 47
From: Dundee, Scotland
Hi Jack, I am part of a pressure group campaigning against premature engine rebuilds..I think there is only me in the group though!
Anyway: I might not be up to date, but its not that common in my experience of this forum for 964's to be rebuilt because of oil smoke from the exhaust, rather than oil ON the exhaust...yes they wear with mileage, but wearing enough to get noticeably smokey?
My other thought is that the upper end of normal oil useage for 964 from the handbook (from memory, hope I am right) is 1.5l/1000km, so you are within spec..I blame the gentle driving for that, LOL.
I am not going to patronise you by asking if it is definitely oilsmoke. But...sometimes these cars put out so much water vapour, even a good few miles into a drive, I have found myself getting paranoid too.
However, it doesnt sound like you are clear under what conditions it is smoking - and I'd guess you need someone behind you, with your car fully warmed up on a warm day, to give info about whether there is a obvious blue smoke on acceleration/after standing at lights (traditionally this would be oil getting past the rings) or if it is on the overrun (traditionally more valve related).
Also need to be careful that it isn't oil dripping 'pretending' to be coming from the exhaust - before I sorted by valve covers my car would smoke spectacularly when I booted it - but it was just oil dumping on the heat exchanger under power...
Then there are the questions about oil (loads of people using 20W50 now) and compression test. Previous rebuild?
Anyway: I might not be up to date, but its not that common in my experience of this forum for 964's to be rebuilt because of oil smoke from the exhaust, rather than oil ON the exhaust...yes they wear with mileage, but wearing enough to get noticeably smokey?
My other thought is that the upper end of normal oil useage for 964 from the handbook (from memory, hope I am right) is 1.5l/1000km, so you are within spec..I blame the gentle driving for that, LOL.
I am not going to patronise you by asking if it is definitely oilsmoke. But...sometimes these cars put out so much water vapour, even a good few miles into a drive, I have found myself getting paranoid too.
However, it doesnt sound like you are clear under what conditions it is smoking - and I'd guess you need someone behind you, with your car fully warmed up on a warm day, to give info about whether there is a obvious blue smoke on acceleration/after standing at lights (traditionally this would be oil getting past the rings) or if it is on the overrun (traditionally more valve related).
Also need to be careful that it isn't oil dripping 'pretending' to be coming from the exhaust - before I sorted by valve covers my car would smoke spectacularly when I booted it - but it was just oil dumping on the heat exchanger under power...
Then there are the questions about oil (loads of people using 20W50 now) and compression test. Previous rebuild?
Burning Brakes
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 841
Likes: 0
From: Perthshire, Scotland
I will sign up to your group Jonny, this myth its done a 100k it now needs a rebuild bollocks that seems to be a stigma on the 964 and to a certain degree the earlier 3.2, so many different factors affect the wear /condition of an engine a compression test will be a good indicator again you see rebuild being done because the figures are slightly out from spec but is this a reason to go and spend £5-10k not so sure to go and gain back a few lost BHP.
Pretty sure Nick will advise you the best way forward
Pretty sure Nick will advise you the best way forward
Burning Brakes
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 782
Likes: 16
From: Cheshire UK
IIRC my Indy charge £3200 + vat for a top end, add another 400 to this to do the bottom end. This includes new headstuds which most basic rebuilds will not. There are always costs to be added to this, be it tinware, oil pipes, clutch etc I would budget £5000 + vat as a realistic cost.
As suggested I would ask your garage if a rebuild is strictly necessary as leaks and oil consumption are only a rough indicator. If I were to run my car on 0W 40 it would be drinking oil, on 15W 50 it is fine.
As suggested I would ask your garage if a rebuild is strictly necessary as leaks and oil consumption are only a rough indicator. If I were to run my car on 0W 40 it would be drinking oil, on 15W 50 it is fine.