Is the 964 the Mr. Potato Head of the Porsche world
02-09-2013, 04:52 PM
#31
Thanks for the reference. With all due respect to Karl Ludvigsen's book it isn't the last word.
EDIT:Let's not forget that the 964 is considered to be over 85% new compared to the 3.2 Carrera.
The term fast is too loose. Suspension, weight, HP, brakes etc make up fast.
Just because something is more technically advanced doesn't make it better. 'Better' is an opinion.
EDIT:Let's not forget that the 964 is considered to be over 85% new compared to the 3.2 Carrera.
Just because something is more technically advanced doesn't make it better. 'Better' is an opinion.
Last edited by Porsche964FP; 02-09-2013 at 05:43 PM.
02-09-2013, 04:52 PM
#32
They are both great platforms. They also both have their short comings and quirks.
Looks like we need a ruler and some Kool-Aid for the more devoted and short-sighted 964 and 993 owners
Looks like we need a ruler and some Kool-Aid for the more devoted and short-sighted 964 and 993 owners
02-09-2013, 04:53 PM
#33
That's a great speech bill, though the motoring world is quite a different place now. I'm also pretty sure you're wrong in most places, and you completely miss the point of what makes the 964 special. Google is your friend and good luck!
02-09-2013, 05:01 PM
#34
Race Car
I love the 64 and its older brother ... Think Bill is pretty much on the money. When 1987 happened and P sales plummeted, the family also most lost the company ... Must have put a squeeze on Dvp spend ... But often the best results a born of the toughest circumstances 
02-09-2013, 05:12 PM
#35
Rennlist Member
What a silly argument - I thought we were talking about Mr. Potato head?
There is a following for each generation and model of Porsche and I like all of them. It would be rather disappointing if the 993 would not have been an improved evolution of the 964. We expect Porsches to improve with each generation, don't we. Ultimately, the design we ultimately fall in love with has nothing to do with pragmatic decisions or the engineering behind the sheet metal (although I guess the engineering will influence a purchase decision).
I for one am turned on by the looks of the 964 but I love the looks of the 993 too. And who doesn't drool after the classic 911, outlaws, 356, 906, 917, 959... (does that make me a promiscuous SOB - hope not).
My 964 fulfill several of my needs as a hobby car and track beast. Like the 993, the 964 can serve as a track car that I can grow with for years; the 964 has enough shortcomings to feed my desire to tinker while being simple enough to fit my DYI hobbyist skills; and thanks to the cool 993 parts bin, there is an almost infinite list of mod opportunities that should provide me with years of tinkering and Rennlisting before she is "done" and I get bored. I don't care which generation of Porsche you own, these cars are made to mod and are all Mr. Potato Heads.
Keep posting discussions on mods - I won't be far behind copying what you did.
Bill V. your posts are awesome. You should write a book on modding the 993 (and 964) - I'd buy a copy first day published!
There is a following for each generation and model of Porsche and I like all of them. It would be rather disappointing if the 993 would not have been an improved evolution of the 964. We expect Porsches to improve with each generation, don't we. Ultimately, the design we ultimately fall in love with has nothing to do with pragmatic decisions or the engineering behind the sheet metal (although I guess the engineering will influence a purchase decision).
I for one am turned on by the looks of the 964 but I love the looks of the 993 too. And who doesn't drool after the classic 911, outlaws, 356, 906, 917, 959... (does that make me a promiscuous SOB - hope not).
My 964 fulfill several of my needs as a hobby car and track beast. Like the 993, the 964 can serve as a track car that I can grow with for years; the 964 has enough shortcomings to feed my desire to tinker while being simple enough to fit my DYI hobbyist skills; and thanks to the cool 993 parts bin, there is an almost infinite list of mod opportunities that should provide me with years of tinkering and Rennlisting before she is "done" and I get bored. I don't care which generation of Porsche you own, these cars are made to mod and are all Mr. Potato Heads.
Keep posting discussions on mods - I won't be far behind copying what you did.
Bill V. your posts are awesome. You should write a book on modding the 993 (and 964) - I'd buy a copy first day published!
02-09-2013, 05:39 PM
#38
Burning Brakes
Bill is your typical internet forum "expert" who really knows nothing at all but likes to preach like he does.
02-09-2013, 05:46 PM
#39
He has kindly helped many of us here with valuable advice regarding part compatibility and upgrades. To say he know 'nothing' is a dire mistake.
Just because we/ I may disagree with some of his points about the development of the 964 does not invalidate any of the great help he's given us.
My points with him are two,
1. Technological advancement is not 'better'. 'Better' is a human interpretation of something.
2. The 964 was over 85% new compared to the 3.2 Carrera - if that is not a huge investment into the development of the 964 I don't know what is.
02-09-2013, 05:48 PM
#40
well since this has degenerated into another null thread, ie you don't have a leg to stand on so you start personal attacks. I h=guess I'll sign off and leave w/ the comment that you Potato head owners need to remove each and evry 993 piepc from you prizes.
By the way don't dare ask for my help again
By the way don't dare ask for my help again
02-09-2013, 05:58 PM
#41
You know perfectly well your value, and the appreciation others inc myself have expressed regarding your help.
02-09-2013, 06:10 PM
#43
Rennlist Member
Yeah Bill... don't suffer any arrows. Geez.
I thought the Potato Head was a pretty witty comment. It's true to a large degree. I have done some of it myself. The 964/993 question is just silly, as all it does is bring out a false competition.
As to the backdate question, I've been on this board for over 6 years... and I see trends come and go. Right now there is a LOT of backdating conversation... I suspect lots to do with Singer and our friend Magnus doing such compelling work. It's cool, and it is its own art form. My $.02 is that if it makes you happy, go for it. Your creativity feeds us all eventually...so do your best to make your car yours. What else in life can be that satisfying?
Though I love my 964, I'd also LOVE to have my dream silver 993 Targa sitting next to it too... as I think it's a prettier car and a more modern interpretation of '911' in every way, but in its own way.
Which sister is prettier? Does it matter? Which one loves you back when it's cold outside? brrr!
I thought the Potato Head was a pretty witty comment. It's true to a large degree. I have done some of it myself. The 964/993 question is just silly, as all it does is bring out a false competition.
As to the backdate question, I've been on this board for over 6 years... and I see trends come and go. Right now there is a LOT of backdating conversation... I suspect lots to do with Singer and our friend Magnus doing such compelling work. It's cool, and it is its own art form. My $.02 is that if it makes you happy, go for it. Your creativity feeds us all eventually...so do your best to make your car yours. What else in life can be that satisfying?
Though I love my 964, I'd also LOVE to have my dream silver 993 Targa sitting next to it too... as I think it's a prettier car and a more modern interpretation of '911' in every way, but in its own way.
Which sister is prettier? Does it matter? Which one loves you back when it's cold outside? brrr!
02-09-2013, 06:13 PM
#44
I've found BillV posts and 'rainman' part number memory recall to be a very helpful, his posts have helped me no end, to the extent my 964 will have a host of improved parts from the 993 thanks to the info. he has posted.
Bill come back, we are not all Potato Heads.
Bill come back, we are not all Potato Heads.
02-09-2013, 06:52 PM
#45
I have always been intriqued by this - the 964 seems to be the most modded of all 911s: why so?
I think it has to do with,
It's compatibility with 993 parts.
The fact it is so easy to recreate an RS replica.
It's relatively less expensive than other 911s to start off with - although that's changing.
It offers traditional rear handling whilst having coil-over suspension.
It's integrity makes it a great base for a track car.
Maybe the answer lies in market value - it seems that a carefully modded 964 is worth more than a standard one. So one isn't throwing away as much money modding their 964 as it'll retain more value.
Is it the most modded 911? I know I can't comment. I'm severely 964 biased and spend most my time in the 964 forum, so I'm out of the loop regarding how modded other 911s are.
So maybe the question is why is the 964 modded so much.