Latest Evo magazine: 964C2 beats 993..
10-02-2012, 04:38 PM
#46
Race Director
10-02-2012, 06:28 PM
#47
Racer
Join Date: Jan 2007
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I have to agree with you there. A point of order, Red cars are the best, principally because they are faster and better looking.
10-21-2012, 07:26 PM
#49
Nordschleife Master
I went to Barnes & Noble tonight and the issue they had on the magazine rack was the October 2012 issue w/ the new Ferrari F12 on the cover and it did not appear to have the 964 content being discussed in this thread.
What Evo issue should I be looking for? Did I already miss it, or is it not on sale yet in the States?
What Evo issue should I be looking for? Did I already miss it, or is it not on sale yet in the States?
Even drove her out to the mall to get the issue. I had been out of the country and hadn't started up in 2wks. I left the battery connected as a test. Fired right up perfect. <3
10-22-2012, 12:39 AM
#50
Burning Brakes
I think that people are beginning to realize that:
964 - the last of the old body style air cooled
993 - the last of the air cooled
Whether one style is better than the other is strictly personal.
I know which I like better.
964 - the last of the old body style air cooled
993 - the last of the air cooled
Whether one style is better than the other is strictly personal.
I know which I like better.
10-22-2012, 01:06 AM
#51
Three Wheelin'
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02-01-2013, 01:02 PM
#54
Rennlist Member
the text is online now:
http://www.evo.co.uk/carreviews/carg..._19891993.html
Porsche 964 Carrera 2 (1989-1993)
The new 991-spec Porsche 911 can trace its roots back through half a century of automotive evolution. Richard Meaden charts the iconic coupe’s journey
Like the 996, the 964 is commonly held in lower regard than other 911 generations. But why? I’m not entirely sure, not least because it looks great; fist-tight and truly compact, it’s a proper 911. OK, the front bumper looks heavy, but the slim hips, upright screen and round headlamps give it a timeless silhouette.
It feels tough as old boots, shot through with that sense of bombproof solidity only found in German cars of a certain age. It’s a bit basic in some areas, but that sense of functionality prepares you perfectly for the driving experience to come.
It’s hard to explain how potent this car feels, especially when the spec sheet says it has less than 250bhp. It really does have thumping performance, rich with torque and spiced with a dry-edged rasp that is – to my ears, at least – one of the great engine notes of any car.
The power steering feels sharper, weightier and more precise than the 993’s. There’s more chat too, from both ends of the car, and for the first few miles you have to concentrate to decipher the white noise from the important information. There’s a stronger, more linear connection between your inputs and the car’s responses than in the 993. There’s plenty of grip to lean on and when you begin to work it, the handling balance is beautifully expressive.
You have to be more positive and confident than in the newer cars because you’re more aware of that rear-slung engine, but it’s an engrossing process and one that – thanks to power steering – is more immediately exploitable than my 964 RS with its heavy, unassisted steering.
Bovingdon has also found it to be pretty special: ‘The engine sounds terrific and really pulls hard. It has that same creamy torque as the 964 RS and here, thanks to power steering, you feel liberated to really work it hard, get the car floating between a bit of understeer and full-on oversteer. It’s got those modern 911 traits of strong, consistent brakes and a positive, if long-throw ’box, plus mini-supercar grunt and tiny dimensions for agility and an aggressive but controllable balance.’
Black D90's look great!
Porsche 911 group test conclusion
Perhaps it’s inevitable that if you start with a layout so at odds with physics, the battle to tame the resulting waywardness becomes an overriding priority. In the days before the electronic aids we now take for granted, Porsche’s desire to control the 911s handling and simultaneously increase its performance was justified. But now?
The 2.2T was educational, especially as its soft suspension and skinny tyres showed what passed as high-performance dynamics in the ’60s. The body roll and ‘I don’t remember it raining’ road-holding made it feel all its 43 years, yet there was delicacy in how it could be driven to the limit of its grip, and its small flat-six was a gem.
The 3.0 SC was an unexpected star. It did help that this example was mint, but we weren’t prepared for how much it moved the game on from the 2.2T in performance and handling, yet preserved so many of the old-school characteristics you’d want to keep. There’s a lesson there somewhere.
Both the 3.2 Carrera and the 993 lacked a certain something; the former felt a bit cumbersome and unwilling, thanks mainly to heavy unassisted steering combined with increased mechanical grip. In the context of the other air-cooled cars, the 993 had a whiff of the 991 about it, having apparently traded the fine tactility and ‘connectedness’ exhibited by the best of its predecessors for prettier looks and greater all-round dynamic polish.
The 964 and 996 ‘underdogs’ both emerged with honour. If you’re looking for the best blend of dynamic challenge and reward, and levels of performance that remain impressive in 2012, it’s very hard to beat a 964 Carrera 2. It was also heartening to find plenty to like about the generally unloved 996. If you can look past the mediocre interior, the uplift in urgency and precision over the 993 is amazing.
Then, of course, there’s the 997, which sets the benchmark for all future 911s.
What we learned is that the best 911s share a sense of connection, transparency and an all-pervading feeling that you’re driving something unique. Things go wrong when that balance is skewed in favour of grip and power, or refinement and stability. evo isn’t lobbying to restore widow-making on-limit handling, but now electronic stability systems can smooth on-limit behaviour, it’s surely unnecessary to erase the last traces of a dynamic fingerprint that makes your car unique.
The 991 has such complete mastery of its own mass that it was hard to tell whether it was rear-engined or mid-engined. That’s an extraordinary engineering achievement, but also a little bit sad, at least if you believe a 911’s feel should reflect its engine positioning. Hopefully Porsche can accept it has exorcised the dynamic demons of that outboard motor and apply its prodigious talents to amplifying the 911’s feel and expression a little bit more.
http://www.evo.co.uk/carreviews/carg..._19891993.html
Porsche 964 Carrera 2 (1989-1993)
The new 991-spec Porsche 911 can trace its roots back through half a century of automotive evolution. Richard Meaden charts the iconic coupe’s journey
Like the 996, the 964 is commonly held in lower regard than other 911 generations. But why? I’m not entirely sure, not least because it looks great; fist-tight and truly compact, it’s a proper 911. OK, the front bumper looks heavy, but the slim hips, upright screen and round headlamps give it a timeless silhouette.
It feels tough as old boots, shot through with that sense of bombproof solidity only found in German cars of a certain age. It’s a bit basic in some areas, but that sense of functionality prepares you perfectly for the driving experience to come.
It’s hard to explain how potent this car feels, especially when the spec sheet says it has less than 250bhp. It really does have thumping performance, rich with torque and spiced with a dry-edged rasp that is – to my ears, at least – one of the great engine notes of any car.
The power steering feels sharper, weightier and more precise than the 993’s. There’s more chat too, from both ends of the car, and for the first few miles you have to concentrate to decipher the white noise from the important information. There’s a stronger, more linear connection between your inputs and the car’s responses than in the 993. There’s plenty of grip to lean on and when you begin to work it, the handling balance is beautifully expressive.
You have to be more positive and confident than in the newer cars because you’re more aware of that rear-slung engine, but it’s an engrossing process and one that – thanks to power steering – is more immediately exploitable than my 964 RS with its heavy, unassisted steering.
Bovingdon has also found it to be pretty special: ‘The engine sounds terrific and really pulls hard. It has that same creamy torque as the 964 RS and here, thanks to power steering, you feel liberated to really work it hard, get the car floating between a bit of understeer and full-on oversteer. It’s got those modern 911 traits of strong, consistent brakes and a positive, if long-throw ’box, plus mini-supercar grunt and tiny dimensions for agility and an aggressive but controllable balance.’
Black D90's look great!
Porsche 911 group test conclusion
Perhaps it’s inevitable that if you start with a layout so at odds with physics, the battle to tame the resulting waywardness becomes an overriding priority. In the days before the electronic aids we now take for granted, Porsche’s desire to control the 911s handling and simultaneously increase its performance was justified. But now?
The 2.2T was educational, especially as its soft suspension and skinny tyres showed what passed as high-performance dynamics in the ’60s. The body roll and ‘I don’t remember it raining’ road-holding made it feel all its 43 years, yet there was delicacy in how it could be driven to the limit of its grip, and its small flat-six was a gem.
The 3.0 SC was an unexpected star. It did help that this example was mint, but we weren’t prepared for how much it moved the game on from the 2.2T in performance and handling, yet preserved so many of the old-school characteristics you’d want to keep. There’s a lesson there somewhere.
Both the 3.2 Carrera and the 993 lacked a certain something; the former felt a bit cumbersome and unwilling, thanks mainly to heavy unassisted steering combined with increased mechanical grip. In the context of the other air-cooled cars, the 993 had a whiff of the 991 about it, having apparently traded the fine tactility and ‘connectedness’ exhibited by the best of its predecessors for prettier looks and greater all-round dynamic polish.
The 964 and 996 ‘underdogs’ both emerged with honour. If you’re looking for the best blend of dynamic challenge and reward, and levels of performance that remain impressive in 2012, it’s very hard to beat a 964 Carrera 2. It was also heartening to find plenty to like about the generally unloved 996. If you can look past the mediocre interior, the uplift in urgency and precision over the 993 is amazing.
Then, of course, there’s the 997, which sets the benchmark for all future 911s.
What we learned is that the best 911s share a sense of connection, transparency and an all-pervading feeling that you’re driving something unique. Things go wrong when that balance is skewed in favour of grip and power, or refinement and stability. evo isn’t lobbying to restore widow-making on-limit handling, but now electronic stability systems can smooth on-limit behaviour, it’s surely unnecessary to erase the last traces of a dynamic fingerprint that makes your car unique.
The 991 has such complete mastery of its own mass that it was hard to tell whether it was rear-engined or mid-engined. That’s an extraordinary engineering achievement, but also a little bit sad, at least if you believe a 911’s feel should reflect its engine positioning. Hopefully Porsche can accept it has exorcised the dynamic demons of that outboard motor and apply its prodigious talents to amplifying the 911’s feel and expression a little bit more.
02-01-2013, 08:29 PM
#59
Rennlist Member
911Jetta, thanks for posting the article, a great read!
I've always preferred the 964. Sure the 993 is also a beautiful car, but I really like the modernized look of the classic design. Upright lights...oooo
I've always preferred the 964. Sure the 993 is also a beautiful car, but I really like the modernized look of the classic design. Upright lights...oooo
