Cheeksyboy

Soz mate, wasn't meant like that ... I think there's a pace difference in the cars, less so the drivers!

Pesty

Impressive spin

bigunit_271078

Guys - looks like good fun. I did the MSV day yesterday at Brands Hatch. This was the full GP circuit and the day was split into 3 groups (Lotus Club / MSV drivers (Me and others) / Lotus Racing Club) and each group got 7 * 20 min sessions across the day. The circuit itself is 2.3miles so nice and long and I have to admit was a great test of driving skill. Not on the upper tier of somewhere like Spa but I would be surprised if there is a better track in the UK. In terms of observations:

- The Brabham Straight into Paddock Hill bend and down into the reverse camber drop into Hailwood Hill was fast and extremely tricky to get right. A bit like Eu Rouge at Spa, pics dont do the drop justice. It is really an experience. I never really got the hang of how to drive through that corner though
- Druids Bend was tougher to get right than I expected and in the early wet conditions was extremely tricky to get right and not spin
- Surtees was another corner that was hard to get exactly right so you could get on the gas up into the long straight to Pilgrims Drop and Hawthorns Bend. I loved this section as you hammer down to Hawthorns and take the fast right hander up to Westfield Bend. This back half of the track was nice and fast. First session out though the lines were half wet and half dry....made for some interesting (hairy) driving. Once the tracked dried out it was far easier to drive and be confident of traction
- The final drive down Clearways I did in third up to the redline...brake and into Clark Curve for the sprint back down the main straight
- Would say now that its getting a bit frustrating driving on my road tyres (done 4 trackdays) and they seem to have little bite on entry and exit to corners. Felt like I had to wait forever for the car to grip. Back felt loose especially in the wet conditions. Probably wont be doing anymore trackdays until Spa next year and will more than likely get a set of half track/half road tyre before then
- Probably should look at some instruction as I still am not 100% confident as to how to get the best out of my car on track.

Will get some pics up soon but here is a video to give you a feel for a lap on the GP circuit.


Its well worth a visit and I am sure to be back next year. Be good to see some more 964's. It was me and a nice grey 964RS holding the fort.

alexjc4

Brands GP is smashing. I take it you didn't get any heat from the noise police?

bigunit_271078

ahh.......forgot to mention that. Well the silencer I bought didnt fit so I took the gamble. When I registered in the morning they said "please go to the noise testing area before you go out for the sighting laps"......eeeekkk - I thought i was a goner!.........so I drive up and the guy goes "rev it to 4500rpm please"........so i rev it to about 3750........waiting........waiting............"yep fine".......sticker on windshield for a pass and I was away.........phew! LOL!

Cheeksyboy

Never driven the GP circuit at Brands, but used to love the national circuit (even if it was a bit short) just because of Paddock Hill bend.....

Can't wait to see your pics and video BU....

in meantime, this is my last run of the day from Donington....Liam braved the passenger seat.

boxsey911

Good write up BU. Sounds like you had a great time.

+1 to both of those points. A second set of wheels with track tyres is definitely the way to go. They really transform the capability of the car on track. You will also get at least twice the amount of trackdays out of the tyres. However, once you get them, you'll never want to drive on track with road tyres again. Instruction is indeed one of the best performance upgrades you can add to the car.

bigunit_271078

Hi Boxsey,

Can you recommend say 4 tyres that are A) full track tyres and B) semi track/road? I will then do some research into the options in terms of performance v price etc.

At this point I am not sure I can be bothered with the faff of changing over my road tyres to do a session on track but given its only going to be 3-4 times a year it would probably be worth it. Is a semi track/road tyre a massive compromise being "in the middle" of each designation?

Do you just change your tyres on the drive with a jack?

Also - if i stick with the 17s for a replacement set of wheels and track tyres will I need to worry about wheel balance and geometry? or is it just a straight swap over?

Appreciate any advice

Porsche964FP

I think the wheels will need to be balanced but geometry should be fine.

I would go with AD08 Yokohamas, they're great, wear is very good and even work quite well in the wet!

boxsey911

If you go for a second set of wheels with track tyres, I recommend Toyo R888s as they are the best value and good in the wet. The other options are Kumho V70s or Dunlop DZ03Gs. However, they're both more expensive (will cost you about £200 more for the set). In all cases you want 225/45/17 for the front and 255/40/17 for the rear.

Of course, you want the wheels balanced when the tyres are fitted but once that's done there's no need to worry about them again. You can run the wheels with your current geometry. If youwant, you can have the geometry set up more extreme to make the best of the tyres (e.g. have more negative camber put on), however that would then compromise the ride on the road. My own geo (camber, toe, caster) is set to RS spec which works well with my track tyres and is fine for road driving. For a second set of second hand wheels there is plenty of choice - 17 inch 996 carrera 4 wheels or boxster twists are a popular choice.

I simply put the track wheels on the car a day or two before the track day and then take them off again when I get home. Nothing more needed than a trolley jack and torque wrench to do the change.

Although I've not tried them, the Yoko AD08s seem to be a decent compromise for road and track. Frank seems happy with them as mentioned above.

Porsche964FP

I am! What's your view on Yokohama AD48s - out of curiosity? I hear they're very loud and useless in the wet, let alone standing water?

boxsey911

Frank, you'll find the AD48s are very popular on Caterfields and the like. They're supposed to be very, very grippy (in the dry). However, I *think* they don't have an E mark and therefore are not road legal i.e. they're only of use to trailered cars and no good for our 'go cars'.

alexjc4

The federal 595 RSRs that I had at Donnington in July, are pretty good on the road wet and dry, and were decent on the track, once I'd figured out the slightly scary lack of grip was because I had 55psi in them! None of that "turn to jelly after 5 laps" business u get with road tyres. They have the pleasant bonus of being £500 a set from camskills for 17s. They won't have the ultimate grip of 888s but for the money I like the compromise, and I will be using them as my road tyres, so you save twice.

bigunit_271078

Thanks for the input guys. Doc - thoses tyres do seem great value for money

Masher

Interesting discussion on tyres since I felt my Bridgestones were losing their edge yesterday at Bedford (the molten rubber in the gaps between the tread was the clue!). There were two lovely 964RS's there which were well driven and appeared to be chasing GT3's from what I saw! A couple of videos for those that like to see a track through the windscreen of a 964:
Chris at Centre Gravity did a lovely job of setting the car up.