Porsche964FP

Hold on, am I missing something - why did you put a deposit down on a car you hadn't seen? I assume this since you were not aware of the bumper respray, bad targa top and lack of locking wheel nut key.

Sorry if I'm misunderstanding. But If indeed this is the case, your mistake was putting money down on a car you hadn't inspected yourself even before the PPI!

From your avatar I see you're based in Munich/ Dubai - would it not have made sense to have a local Rennlister check the car out before the PPI...

MICHAELWWW

Sorry , Paul Sr. ? Might have been before my time, but I doubt it.

Bearclaw

Sorry about your experience with them, and the wasted time and anguish it caused. You should not have a problem getting your money back - of course, I'm thinking of a "normal" dealer. From what I've read recently, it sounds like he's intimidated most local shops from doing a PPI on his cars, leaving only a couple left - who are in bed with him. As has been mentioned, a simple Google search of "Victory" and "Robert Neal" will yield literally pages of hits with people describing experiences similar to yours. Hidden damage, unrevealed mechanical problems, even allegedly using a separate eBay acct to buy old service record books to supply with the sale cars. Some people have even completed purchases and only then found the hidden problems. You can imagine what a nightmare they encounter. There is about a 10-page thread on Pelican which is particularly compelling, where you can watch the poster's communication with Victory degrade into written legal threats by Neal. Curiously enough, there is the odd post every so often of someone buying a car from them and being reasonably pleased with it. But the odds are against it, I would say.

I always say, a good car is wherever you find it: Rennlist, autotrader.com, cars.com, yes even craigslist. But since you are "extremely long-distance", I think the Rennlist advice is a good one.

Yes, this can be an uncomfortable practice, but not an unusual one here. Particularly back when I bought (mid-2000's) when everyone was tapping their home equity and 401k's to buy toys , good cars on the market may only last hours and dealers would routinely ask for "some money on the car" before they'd go to the trouble of hauling it to a PPI somewhere.
They didn't have to jump through their own @ss to sell a car, because cars sold easily.
Things have changed somewhat since then.

sml

+1 ... lets wait for more info on the real problem before we spend too much time responding.

Vandit

I don't see how a 76k mi Targa could even list w/ an asking price of $29k, unless they fat fingered the "2" in the price. Even w/ 1/3 the mileage, that asking would probably still be too high.

PNine64

I know of one similar to what you've described (a '92 with maybe a few less miles) that went for above 30K. It looked almost exactly like mine and was exported back to Germany. Great examples are not easy to find...especially in the later years.

If you are looking for a '93 then only 77 of them were shipped over here. How many of those are still around? How many of those have been cared for? Production numbers were higher through '91 but dropped off dramatically after that. So if you are looking for a Targa in that post ~91 era with the updated brakes, suspension, mirrors and motor then there just aren't a whole lot of them out there.

I understand Targas aren't always the car of choice on Rennlist but there is a racer flavor over here too...and that means Coupe. I'm not sure that always extrapolates to society as a whole. I more commonly read comments about Targas...or the color green...but every couple of months I get a PM from someone who REALLY appreciates the combination of the two. If there ever comes a time where I need to part with my car there will be someone willing to pay the premium I did. I also understand that it will probably take a little longer than a red Coupe though too.

azander

Did you put the deposit on a Visa card? If so, perhaps you can fight the BS charge.

SuperUser

I officially do not like Victory Motors.

Frank 993 C4S

I tried to gently warn you about Victory in my response to your first post. I have no experience with Victory but I read the stories.

You should get your deposit back if you can clearly state how the PPI showed that it was not as represented. Stick to the facts. Get a local lawyer to help you go through small claims court.

The best part is that you did not buy the car and found out all of this afterwards. There are plenty of cars out there and the process you went through is the right one. I bought my RSA from 6500 miles away sight unseen and it was a good experience.

For what it's worth, I once bought a "slightly" used CLK55 AMG Convertible for my wife as a birthday present. It was a complete lemon and she drove it all of THREE! times as she didn't want to get stranded with it. The experience cost me $50,000. Nuff said. When I bought my 3.6 turbo from a well known used car dealer it "passed" PPI at a "reputable" local shop close to the dealer (now thankfully out of business) but it did not run right when I picked it up. It took me close to $10,000 to get the car to run perfectly. Turns out that the gas in the tank had turned to varnish from sitting around and pretty much clogged everything

Makmov

If they give you trouble just go to the Dealer Board and file a complaint.

At least you found out about VMC before you bought the car. I kinda of tried to tell ya about them.

You'll find a car.

swaini

hi all,
you were all right..
this is the ppi result from the mechanic and some pics... u people judge.
mr neal was reluctant to return the deposit, i threatened to post my experience in every forum i can find and will let PCA know about him.... 5 hrs later, the deposit was refunded.

swaini

ATTACHED ARE THE PICTURES OF THE CAR, ALSO THE REPORT OF WHAT I FOUND: FRONT TIRES ARE NOT NEW AND THERE ARE DIFFERENT MODEL OF TIRES FROM RIGHT TO LEFT. THE REAR TIRES HAVE ABOUT 60% WEAR. THE REMOVABLE TOP AS YOU CAN SEE IN THE PICTURES, IS QUITE DEFORME. TWO PIC SHOW THE RIGHT SIDE ROCKER PANEL MOULDING SEPARETED FROM BODY. ALSO IS A PICTURE OF THE LEFT SIDE OF THE FRONT BUMPER COVER WITH SPOT WICH LOOKS IS BLEACHED. SHOWS THAT THE CAR HAD BODY WORK DONE ON LEFT SIDE, FRONT FENDER HAS BEEN REPAINTED AND IT SHOWS SIGNS OF REPAIR DONE ON LEFT SIDE ROCKET PANEL UNDER THE DOOR. RIGHT REAR TEAL LIGHT ASSEMBLY IS HAS LOST SOME OF THE COLORATION, IT LOOKS PALE. I HAVE NOT SEEN ANY OIL LEAKS AFTER RUNNING THE CAR OVER 20 MINUTES. THE CAR IS IN AVERAGE CONDITION, ENGINE RUNS GOOD , INTERIOR IS CLEAN, ALSO SEND YOU PICTURES OF THE REMOVABLE TOP WHERE YOU CAN SEE THE PETING IN THE PAINT AROUND THE HUNDLES. THIS IS ABOUT IT

swaini

in all honesty, i was negotiating that car for my brother in law.. and i paid the deposit because he was nagging about other offers and so ( stupid me) but i only paid pending a ppi that ensures the car is as advertised. u gyz so the pics on the victory site.. that looked like showroom condition. t

then mr. neal was reluctant to accept certain mechanics claiming some never passed any of his cars..
but when the pics from the ppi came back and i found out that it wasn't complete.. thats when i felt insulted and cheated. and thats when his tone changed and his true colors became more apparent... then adding insult to injury by saying that what i did was BS and he wouldn't sell me the car!
thanks all for all the advice, this road would have had a different unhappy ending if it wasn't for you rennlisters.

Rocket Rob

Sorry it wasn't the car you wanted but am glad you had a PPI done. Definitely not what was advertised.

Victory MC

I feel it’s necessary to respond, because the deal is being construed differently.

First of all, I sent a complete PPI list of the items that our factory-trained techs found with the Porsche and agreed to fix prior to delivery. I did not pressure the sale at all and agreed to let Dr. Swaini, who I know as Mo Murad, have an inspection done elsewhere, as well as fix, replace and/or repair any issues the shop found to be wrong.
After the PPI, the following email was fired off to me. Frankly, I’m not interested in being verbally abused. I also had no intention of keeping the deposit and refunded it (within 3 hours) in regards to a dead deal, not from threat. By the way, the new owner is thrilled with the targa and purchased a second 911 at the same time…

Dear MR Neal,
i have read a lot about your sales ethics on the net, you dont expect us to shell out 30 grand just like that? do you?
the pictures you have posted in your site are not those of the car we got inspected. as you can see, my command of the english is much superlative to yours, as i know what FINE Condition is!!! and you my dear Sales man have to renew and rekindle your relationship with your dusty dictionary!
the pictures i got from my respected mechanic show a completely different story, i never knew that porsche designed bubbles in their targa roofs, maybe thats a texan option for the hot summers! nor did porsche design and finish the bumpers with streaks of white (only god knows what that is). nor did they leave gaping holes on the underside of the front bumpers (maybe another texan option)
what kind of car sales man forgets or cant locate the security wheel nut unfasteners!!!
as for your poor imaginary german client, god help him, thank god he only lives and thrives in your imagination.
lastly, if you call inspecting a car BS, which my sorry arab as* believes stands for BULLSH**, then YOU are the ONLY BULL SH** whose still breathing and standing, trying to take poor suckers for a ride, start using your disclaimers for toilet paper, save some money and hire someone with better english to do your ads. im reporting you to the PCA and any one else that will listen.
you think i would buy anything from you, if you had an offer buy 1 get 2 free, i still wont **** on you to put your fire out.
Retire , save us all the grief, people like you give every sales man a bad reputation.



Who wants a client like this? Not me.