Lack of power above 4,000rpm... NEED HELP !
02-14-2012, 08:46 PM
#18
Racer
Thread Starter
Heard from mechanic today...
Bypassing the TPC black box the problem still remains.
Testing the TDC sensor measures 1.2 volts instead of 3 volts.
Hammer still displaying hall sensor fault code.
Was told it's an electrical issue, not mechanical.
That's it for now...
Bypassing the TPC black box the problem still remains.
Testing the TDC sensor measures 1.2 volts instead of 3 volts.
Hammer still displaying hall sensor fault code.
Was told it's an electrical issue, not mechanical.
That's it for now...
02-22-2012, 01:38 PM
#19
Racer
Thread Starter
Ok...an update.
Still have not discovered the problem and in fact they said they have never seen this type of problem before and have called a meeting to discuss options this afternoon.
They have been looking into solutions for the past 4 weeks, but have not found one.
They bypassed the supercharger and the problem still persists.
Any ideas?
If this does not get resolved, I'm left with a car that can't exceed 4,000rpm and I may as well have a Hyundai Accent !!!
Perhaps a fresh set of eyes and a confab with my mechanic to discuss what's already been done/looked at.
Still have not discovered the problem and in fact they said they have never seen this type of problem before and have called a meeting to discuss options this afternoon.
They have been looking into solutions for the past 4 weeks, but have not found one.
They bypassed the supercharger and the problem still persists.
Any ideas?
If this does not get resolved, I'm left with a car that can't exceed 4,000rpm and I may as well have a Hyundai Accent !!!
Perhaps a fresh set of eyes and a confab with my mechanic to discuss what's already been done/looked at.
Last edited by dkcaims; 02-22-2012 at 01:55 PM.
02-22-2012, 02:28 PM
#20
So we know that it is an electrical probablem for sure?
If so, we know that it's a ignition issue. Right?
The timing is jumping around, the Hall sensor failure, the low voltage on the TDC.
and the AM stuff is bypassed.
The hall sensor tells the DME when No. 1 is firing and is direct to the DME. So if it's not a sensor fult then something else has to be the issue. Curious it also has low voltage at the Top Dead Center sensor. Bad wire, connector, ground or short? There is only a few things left to eliminate in the ignition system. Presuming all the basics have been checked connectors, wires, dist. belt, Hall sensor pick up, high tension wires, and locations, basic ground straps, cap and rotor, what are you left with really. Not getting any knock sensor errors, and presuming those are okay. The DME itself.
Right? Everything points to an ignition issue? More specifically an ignition timing issue.
Any sources of RF interference? Note that RF can be a loose piece of metal vibrating on another peice of metal, it doesn't have to come from a transmitter source.
If so, we know that it's a ignition issue. Right?
The timing is jumping around, the Hall sensor failure, the low voltage on the TDC.
and the AM stuff is bypassed.
The hall sensor tells the DME when No. 1 is firing and is direct to the DME. So if it's not a sensor fult then something else has to be the issue. Curious it also has low voltage at the Top Dead Center sensor. Bad wire, connector, ground or short? There is only a few things left to eliminate in the ignition system. Presuming all the basics have been checked connectors, wires, dist. belt, Hall sensor pick up, high tension wires, and locations, basic ground straps, cap and rotor, what are you left with really. Not getting any knock sensor errors, and presuming those are okay. The DME itself.
Right? Everything points to an ignition issue? More specifically an ignition timing issue.
Any sources of RF interference? Note that RF can be a loose piece of metal vibrating on another peice of metal, it doesn't have to come from a transmitter source.
Last edited by Makmov; 02-22-2012 at 02:51 PM.
02-22-2012, 02:39 PM
#21
Racer
Thread Starter
So we know that it is an electrical probablem for sure?
If so, we know that it's a ingnition issue. Right?
The timing is jumping around, the Hall sensor failure, the low voltage on the TDC.
and the AM stuff is bypassed.
The hall sensor tells the DME when No. 1 is firing and is direct to the DME. So if it's not a sensor fault then something else has to be the issue. Curious it also has low voltage at the Top Dead Center sensor. Bad wire, connector, ground or short? There is only a few things left to eliminate in the ignition system. Presuming all the basics have been checked connectors, wires, dist. belt, Hall sensor pick up, high tension wires, and locations, basic ground straps, cap and rotor, what are you left with really. Not getting any knock sensor errors, and presuming those are okay. The DME itself.
Right? Everything points to an ingnition issue? More specifically an ingnition timing issue.
If so, we know that it's a ingnition issue. Right?
The timing is jumping around, the Hall sensor failure, the low voltage on the TDC.
and the AM stuff is bypassed.
The hall sensor tells the DME when No. 1 is firing and is direct to the DME. So if it's not a sensor fault then something else has to be the issue. Curious it also has low voltage at the Top Dead Center sensor. Bad wire, connector, ground or short? There is only a few things left to eliminate in the ignition system. Presuming all the basics have been checked connectors, wires, dist. belt, Hall sensor pick up, high tension wires, and locations, basic ground straps, cap and rotor, what are you left with really. Not getting any knock sensor errors, and presuming those are okay. The DME itself.
Right? Everything points to an ingnition issue? More specifically an ingnition timing issue.
Thanks Makmov
02-22-2012, 08:09 PM
#23
Racer
Thread Starter
OK... here is a printout from the shop detailing their troubleshooting efforts...
Already have 35 hours labor invested into finding a solution to this problem.
Based upon what's been done already...anyone have any additional ideas?
Next step is to install air/fuel mix gauge and boost gauge and hit the dyno.
Anyone know of a good all wheel drive dyno in the Denver area?
Already have 35 hours labor invested into finding a solution to this problem.
Based upon what's been done already...anyone have any additional ideas?
Next step is to install air/fuel mix gauge and boost gauge and hit the dyno.
Anyone know of a good all wheel drive dyno in the Denver area?
02-22-2012, 08:28 PM
#25
It does sound more and more like a DME fault. They are pretty reliable, but all bets are off when you add in an After Market box. Obviously there is something wrong with the hall sensor circut being open and they have replaced, they said they check all DME looms and connections. The DME is suspect. Not absolute, but suspect. The DME is also sensitve to RF interference.
And, yeah, there is nothing I am seeing or hearing that would lead me to suspect anything fuel system related at this 10 seconds. It's ignition time, or at least that is the symptoms.
And, yeah, there is nothing I am seeing or hearing that would lead me to suspect anything fuel system related at this 10 seconds. It's ignition time, or at least that is the symptoms.
02-22-2012, 08:37 PM
#26
Racer
Thread Starter
When you say DME... do you mean the chip only or the entire box under the seat?
Anyone have a spare working DME laying around? I think the shop is checking with the other shops around town to see if they have one also.
Anyone have a spare working DME laying around? I think the shop is checking with the other shops around town to see if they have one also.
02-22-2012, 10:24 PM
#28
Racer
Thread Starter
Anyone have a good source for a rebuilt DME w/ warranty?
I saw them at 911chips.com... Any other suggestions?
Also... there are different revisions of the DME, correct?
Is the 2.1 in "motronic 2.1" the revision number?
Will a DME from a '94 work in a '90? Are they both Motronic 2.1's?
Thanks
I saw them at 911chips.com... Any other suggestions?
Also... there are different revisions of the DME, correct?
Is the 2.1 in "motronic 2.1" the revision number?
Will a DME from a '94 work in a '90? Are they both Motronic 2.1's?
Thanks
02-22-2012, 10:38 PM
#29
Yeah that is the basic motronic version number, but you need to find it by part no specific. BMW used 2.1 and probably several others.
They changed at some point in the 91 model year.
It might work but I cannot confirm that. Rebuilt is probably the only way to go any more.
Not 100% sure that is the problem but there are some guys out there that can test and repair a DME.
The only problem with a loaner is we don't know if it is a failed DME inside on its own or was it caused by some external source. I know someone that replaced a DME and it ended up just being a DME relay. whoops. Wasn't me though.
Can I borrow your DME you funny guy lol.
They changed at some point in the 91 model year.
It might work but I cannot confirm that. Rebuilt is probably the only way to go any more.
Not 100% sure that is the problem but there are some guys out there that can test and repair a DME.
The only problem with a loaner is we don't know if it is a failed DME inside on its own or was it caused by some external source. I know someone that replaced a DME and it ended up just being a DME relay. whoops. Wasn't me though.
Can I borrow your DME you funny guy lol.
02-22-2012, 11:01 PM
#30
Racer
Thread Starter
Yeah that is the basic motronic version number, but you need to find it by part no specific. BMW used 2.1 and probably several others.
They changed at some point in the 91 model year.
It might work but I cannot confirm that. Rebuilt is probably the only way to go any more.
Not 100% sure that is the problem but there are some guys out there that can test and repair a DME.
The only problem with a loaner is we don't know if it is a failed DME inside on its own or was it caused by some external source. I know someone that replaced a DME and it ended up just being a DME relay. whoops. Wasn't me though.
Can I borrow your DME you funny guy lol.
They changed at some point in the 91 model year.
It might work but I cannot confirm that. Rebuilt is probably the only way to go any more.
Not 100% sure that is the problem but there are some guys out there that can test and repair a DME.
The only problem with a loaner is we don't know if it is a failed DME inside on its own or was it caused by some external source. I know someone that replaced a DME and it ended up just being a DME relay. whoops. Wasn't me though.
Can I borrow your DME you funny guy lol.
Replaced the relay a couple months ago...
$525 for a rebuilt unit with 5yr warranty, seems reasonable.
I'm assuming that a hammer cannot fully test a DME like a thorough bench test by 911chips can...?