Shamus964

Need some opinions from guys running the KW V3 setup - I noticed today when I pulled my wheel that the helper spring is completely compressed on the fronts - is this normal? (the spring in the pic is a Swift since I uprated the front springs)

This just doesn't look right to me, especially since it's unweighted and the bottom spring perch is almost all the way down.

Vandit

Are you sure the spring length on the replacement spring is the same as the spring you replaced? Different spring manufactures have different tolerances.

You might be able to ditch the helper entirely w/ these new springs and just turn up the preload collar to keep the spring from rattling when the suspension isn't loaded.

As always, you probably need to corner balance (and possibly realign) whenever you mess w/ these things.

freedman

Shamus,

Every pic Ive found on a 964 has the helper above the main spring, not below??

Though even on these which are not loaded the helper appears to be fully compressed in a similar way to yours

http://www.cagedcar.com/Gallery/file...1069-full.html

http://boxsey.blogspot.com/search?up...&max-results=7

Vandit

Those helpers are probably there for the people that run a really low ride height or a very high spring rate.

Another thing to consider is, if both tires aren't off the ground then there is a chance there is still a bit of droop left in the suspension from where the swaybar is still putting a load on the unloaded side.

Let's consider the purpose of the helper spring to begin with. The helper spring should always be fully collapsed if there's a load on the suspension. The helper spring's only purpose is to keep the other spring seated when the suspension is unloaded and minimize noise from the spring moving around when unloaded. Like I said, if the suspension truly is at complete droop, then you can probably ditch the helper spring entirely and just turn up the preload collar to the point where there is no spring slack on the unloaded body.

James42

Shamus,

Every pic Ive found on a 964 has the helper above the main spring, not below??

Though even on these which are not loaded the helper appears to be fully compressed in a similar way to yours

Shamus964

Thanks for the feedback so far folks!

I noticed that the helpers were on the bottom too - weird, but I can't think of any negative impact to doing that so I assume it's ok to position it there.

Thanks for the links freedman - I looked to find stuff like that and you found em! I figured that the helper would be compressed with the wheels on the ground but might come into play as the suspension moves during a cornering - but your point is a good one Vandit, hadn't thought of the sway's affect on droop. I didn't pull the trigger myself on the main springs - had the shop buy them and I provided them with the length KW uses so I hope that's not the issue.

I'm curious to see what guys say who are running these when comes to how far down the body that lower perch is too.

boxsey911

Shamus, mine were fitted as supplied from the factory. Here's a link directly to the suspension page on my blog that Freedman has already put a general link to:

http://boxsey.blogspot.com/2010/12/s...de-mar-09.html

Helpers at the front are at the top and always compressed. Helpers at the rear are on the bottom and not fully compressed when the car is jacked up. As I say they were fitted straight from the box. I've no idea if there is a significance as to why KW use the reverse approach between front and rear.

Here's an article that confirms what Vandit says about the role of the helper spring and that it is often squashed flat:

http://e30m3project.com/e30m3perform...ings/index.htm

clinchy993

+ 1 as per Boxsey on mine

ThomasC2

It's correct. The tender spring is supposed to be compressed. It's purpose is just to get a pre-load on the main spring.

Thomas

Shamus964

Thanks guys - as always Rennlist rocks!

I won't sweat it then - thanks for all the folks who responded. Hopefully having the helper positioning reversed is a non-issue but I'll call KW to verify.

Steve Weiner-Rennsport Systems

Hi Shamus,

I don't have any experience with KW's, however I can tell you that both helpers and tenders will be coilbound with the car at rest so that's nothing to worry about.

FWIW, helper springs & tender springs are totally different things and are oftentimes confused with each other.

Helpers are simply very light springs intended to keep the springs from falling out of their perches at full droop and do not add any spring rate to the overall package.

Tender springs OTOH, are shorter springs that are added to main springs to offer a dual-rate package. This provides more low-speed compliance over small bumps and road imperfections than a single-rate setup. While the formulary is somewhat complex, varying the lengths of tenders and mains affects the suspension rate crossover point giving the suspension engineer a great deal of flexibility.

Lastly, it makes no difference to the spring rate package where a tender (or helper) is positioned; above or below the main spring. When I assemble a coil-over kit such as Motion Control, JRZ, etc, I usually position the tender above the main so the coupler doesn't rub the shock body.

Hope this helps,

ACSGP

Hi Shamus, just saw your PM, and tho I can't help you very much with the answer, Colin Belton prob is the best person to ask as he's done a bunch of cars with the V3s, and I bought the set from 9M.

Shamus964

Got both wheels off the ground - and all is well, the sway was keeping them coilbound

Thanks to those who responded.

snowmants

I know this is an old thread but I had this same question found my answer here today! Thanks all! Great to have a helpful community such as this!