The wait is over...Rebuild complete
07-07-2011, 02:12 AM
#31
Burning Brakes
I really feel for you Guy. Easily done unless you know you're aware of the potential traps with these machines. NZ has a Dog and Lemon guide to cars which describes the 964 in words like "pretty much bullet proof but if it does go wrong will cost you the price of a new Korean car to put right." The reality is they are precision instruments and need Porsche experts maintaining them (OPD or independent) not gash mechanics; if it's done right, they are amongst the most reliable cars around. Sounds like you're in deep and committed now but I wouldn't persevere with the clown currently turning the spanners.
07-07-2011, 02:19 AM
#32
Instructor
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Regardless of how you got here I am sorry to hear of your situation; sometimes even with the best advice we still don't listen and we take a chance figuring we'll be ok... the casinos bank on it also I am sure we would all agree that it is pretty easy to be swayed by such a beautiful car.
I do hope that you will eventually get the chance to be a proud Porsche owner and find the joy of owning such a spectacular car as many as us have. Good luck Guy.
I do hope that you will eventually get the chance to be a proud Porsche owner and find the joy of owning such a spectacular car as many as us have. Good luck Guy.
07-07-2011, 10:58 AM
#33
I'm shocked by the lack of "methodical analysis" your repair shop is taking. Normally, a shop will clean the engine bottom, and run it/drive it to determine where the leak is coming from. Only then will you know what to fix when the engine comes out.
I'm not sure about a cam housing being a problem. When that warps (almost never on a 964 it seems) the camshaft would not turn freely (which you test as you are assembling the engine). it sounds like a gasket (Locktite 574 is used to seal the cam housing to the cylinder heads). it could be a warped chain housing or more likely chain housing cover, or just a poor job of fitting gaskets, etc. But I would want to know where the leak is coming from. Cleaning the engine and using a flashlight and looking carefully almost always reveals the source of the leak.
Reassembly has to be slow and clean work to be effective, and as many have said- these engines can go 6-8 years without any leaks at all and then minor leaks up until 15 years. You have paid a lot of money to this shop also.
-Keith
I'm not sure about a cam housing being a problem. When that warps (almost never on a 964 it seems) the camshaft would not turn freely (which you test as you are assembling the engine). it sounds like a gasket (Locktite 574 is used to seal the cam housing to the cylinder heads). it could be a warped chain housing or more likely chain housing cover, or just a poor job of fitting gaskets, etc. But I would want to know where the leak is coming from. Cleaning the engine and using a flashlight and looking carefully almost always reveals the source of the leak.
Reassembly has to be slow and clean work to be effective, and as many have said- these engines can go 6-8 years without any leaks at all and then minor leaks up until 15 years. You have paid a lot of money to this shop also.
-Keith
07-07-2011, 11:28 AM
#34
Drifting
Guy, You are getting taken for a ride. Under no circumstances should you pay another dime to get this sorted out. Once he fixes this leak, find a new mechanic. I don't care if he has to drop the engine to fix it, and neither should you, as it is his problem and not yours. I wonder if your engine really needed a rebuild to begin with, or if your mechanic just needed a tropical vacation for a month.
07-07-2011, 11:33 AM
#35
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I've been reading your thread for a couple of months now. I was indignant last time I contributed, thinking this had to be a hoax. I'm beginning to believe you're for real though.
You exercised bad judgement in buying the car. Now you've obviously exercised poor judgement in having the car repaired.
You used a garage that obviously doesn't know what they're doing and apparently took you to the cleaners while doing it. You've invested twice what the car will ever be worth and contrary to the previous posts, you will probably never be happy with the car and enjoy driving it.
My suggestion is to sell the car as soon as the garage makes it right, which I trust they will. Get as much as you can a quickly as you can and go buy yourself a car with a crate motor.
Sorry to be so negative, but sometimes a good punch in the face is the best thing for someone who's gone off the deep end.
Good luck with your next car!
You exercised bad judgement in buying the car. Now you've obviously exercised poor judgement in having the car repaired.
You used a garage that obviously doesn't know what they're doing and apparently took you to the cleaners while doing it. You've invested twice what the car will ever be worth and contrary to the previous posts, you will probably never be happy with the car and enjoy driving it.
My suggestion is to sell the car as soon as the garage makes it right, which I trust they will. Get as much as you can a quickly as you can and go buy yourself a car with a crate motor.
Sorry to be so negative, but sometimes a good punch in the face is the best thing for someone who's gone off the deep end.
Good luck with your next car!
But I'm not buying the rebuild story. Dozens--literally dozens--of people here offered their advice and experience, imploring him to take his time on the rebuild, pick out the right shop, do his own due diligence. Instead, he makes the same impulsive decision WITHOUT DOING HIS HOMEWORK.
I'm sorry, but no sympathy from me. I would expect my ten year old to exercise better judgment.
Unless, of course, this guy is taking us all for a ride. As his situation becomes increasingly bizarre, I think this might just be a troll posting. Has anyone here seen the car?
07-07-2011, 12:10 PM
#36
Thanks Mitch9000. I hope you are right. I am sorry for comming across negative. Truth is, I am simply sharring MY experience with Porsche. Just because my experience, when written in black and white, sounds negative, my hope is that I am in the minority.
Does anyone have a "dry" 964? I.e. Dry for years?
Thank you
Does anyone have a "dry" 964? I.e. Dry for years?
Thank you
07-07-2011, 12:18 PM
#37
He is droping the motor etc. under warranty. But, when he mentioned a warped cam tower, I started to think he might be trying to lay the ground work for additional expenses.
I assure you that I will not give him another dime. He could keep the car while were waiting for the court date. This mechanic works on Porsches, Audi's, Ferraris, VW, Bentley, Mercedes etc. He also races Porsches and builds the motors that he and others runs a Mid-Ohio. This is why I took it to him.
Furthermore, I have read many threads of common folk, owners, who have succesfully undertaken a rebuild (less machining) on their own. I figured if they could do it, certainly someone who has the above credentials could as well.
I will admit my impatience has served me poorly. Many posters said to take it to the Garaj in lieu of my shop. The garaj has a back log and I wouldn't have got my car back this summer (convertible). I just bought it and...want to drive the damn thing. So....full steam ahead, but with a noted Porsche mechanic (once again, doctors, accountants and realtors have rebuilt these things successfully).
As many have stated, I am paying top dollar. Ridiculous money. If it so much as drips a leak of oil when completed this current go-around, I will take it to another shop for repairs and intitiate litigation against the first.
When I am promised a three to four week turn around that drags on for eight, and then I'm accused of rushing the process and causing the post-rebuild leaks...Then told that it will be gone another 2-4 weeks, or almost 2/3 longer (and double the money)...I am loosing my cool.
I assure you that I will not give him another dime. He could keep the car while were waiting for the court date. This mechanic works on Porsches, Audi's, Ferraris, VW, Bentley, Mercedes etc. He also races Porsches and builds the motors that he and others runs a Mid-Ohio. This is why I took it to him.
Furthermore, I have read many threads of common folk, owners, who have succesfully undertaken a rebuild (less machining) on their own. I figured if they could do it, certainly someone who has the above credentials could as well.
I will admit my impatience has served me poorly. Many posters said to take it to the Garaj in lieu of my shop. The garaj has a back log and I wouldn't have got my car back this summer (convertible). I just bought it and...want to drive the damn thing. So....full steam ahead, but with a noted Porsche mechanic (once again, doctors, accountants and realtors have rebuilt these things successfully).
As many have stated, I am paying top dollar. Ridiculous money. If it so much as drips a leak of oil when completed this current go-around, I will take it to another shop for repairs and intitiate litigation against the first.
When I am promised a three to four week turn around that drags on for eight, and then I'm accused of rushing the process and causing the post-rebuild leaks...Then told that it will be gone another 2-4 weeks, or almost 2/3 longer (and double the money)...I am loosing my cool.
07-07-2011, 02:36 PM
#38
Drifting
...
When I am promised a three to four week turn around that drags on for eight, and then I'm accused of rushing the process and causing the post-rebuild leaks...Then told that it will be gone another 2-4 weeks, or almost 2/3 longer (and double the money)...I am loosing my cool.
When I am promised a three to four week turn around that drags on for eight, and then I'm accused of rushing the process and causing the post-rebuild leaks...Then told that it will be gone another 2-4 weeks, or almost 2/3 longer (and double the money)...I am loosing my cool.
as well you should, but take it out on the mechanic and not the Porsche name. Your anger is pointed in the wrong direction and upon deaf ears.
<Edit> and by the way, since you asked, not a drop...
Last edited by Laker; 07-07-2011 at 02:49 PM. Reason: Pictures
07-07-2011, 02:50 PM
#39
Glimmer of hope...
My mechanic just called. He said that the valve covers have factory screw holes tapped into them to accomodate a bracket that organizes the spark plug wires.
He said the oil seems to be coming from one of these holes. The holes aren't supposed to go all the way through but...he said it's possible a previous mechanic tried to muscle a screw that was too long into this hole and blew the back out a little. With the compression, it is pushing oil through.
Does this sound reasonable???
He is going to put a screw into the hole with expoxy and see if this seals the leak. If it does, he will order another cover...
Thoughts please... ????
He said the oil seems to be coming from one of these holes. The holes aren't supposed to go all the way through but...he said it's possible a previous mechanic tried to muscle a screw that was too long into this hole and blew the back out a little. With the compression, it is pushing oil through.
Does this sound reasonable???
He is going to put a screw into the hole with expoxy and see if this seals the leak. If it does, he will order another cover...
Thoughts please... ????
07-07-2011, 03:09 PM
#40
Hi Laker. You are probably correct but...so far, this has been MY experience with my Porsche. Clearly Porsche wouldn't have the following it does if everyone's experience mirrored mine. Most likely, I am considerably more dumb than most in these spring purchase matters. About March each year, I get spring fever and my wallet, and pride, usually takes a beating.
Don't ask me about my 26' Baja Boat or my Boston Whaler...
A word of warning, do not go on a Boston Whaler website and try to say something less than blind praise about one of these boats. If anyone thinks I have thick skin, it was calloused on a Boston Whaler website. My Boston Whaler became water logged and I made the mistake of mentioning this. Bad mistake! I'm still missing chunks of flesh on that one. If you listend to them, you'd think you could cut a 15' Boston Whaler into quarters and still sail the seven seas in gale winds and while towing a lesser boat.
What I lack in patience and due dilligence in my spring purchases, I make up for in overall entertainment to fellow forum members.
Don't ask me about my 26' Baja Boat or my Boston Whaler...
A word of warning, do not go on a Boston Whaler website and try to say something less than blind praise about one of these boats. If anyone thinks I have thick skin, it was calloused on a Boston Whaler website. My Boston Whaler became water logged and I made the mistake of mentioning this. Bad mistake! I'm still missing chunks of flesh on that one. If you listend to them, you'd think you could cut a 15' Boston Whaler into quarters and still sail the seven seas in gale winds and while towing a lesser boat.
What I lack in patience and due dilligence in my spring purchases, I make up for in overall entertainment to fellow forum members.
07-07-2011, 03:10 PM
#41
Drifting
potentially - especially if they have been drilled all the way through
I've outlined in red the spark plug holders. so at least you know what you are talking about. (and they are ob the lower valve covers - ones that typically have oil in them all the time when the car is parked)
I've outlined in red the spark plug holders. so at least you know what you are talking about. (and they are ob the lower valve covers - ones that typically have oil in them all the time when the car is parked)
07-07-2011, 03:13 PM
#42
Drifting
Funny thing is - that I tell boating makes my Porsche hobby seem downright cheap. (Bertram 28 and Pursuit 1950 and Boston Whaler Squall). We will help you get through this....
Just for your info - the cam towers are strong - like really strong - you can bugger them up if you don't remove them properly (like a screwdriver under them) of if you don't clean off all the sealant - but typically they do not "warped".
Now if you are not 100% familiar with Porsche engines - and don't use a straight edge to check cylinder head height - and you are off due to either base gaskets being installed incorrectly - or machining - or mismatching cylinders (they have different height groups) then yes - it is possible to warp when you tighten.- but then usually you have a problem with the cam turning...
Just for your info - the cam towers are strong - like really strong - you can bugger them up if you don't remove them properly (like a screwdriver under them) of if you don't clean off all the sealant - but typically they do not "warped".
Now if you are not 100% familiar with Porsche engines - and don't use a straight edge to check cylinder head height - and you are off due to either base gaskets being installed incorrectly - or machining - or mismatching cylinders (they have different height groups) then yes - it is possible to warp when you tighten.- but then usually you have a problem with the cam turning...
Last edited by g-50cab; 07-07-2011 at 03:15 PM. Reason: added a description of "warped valve covers"
07-07-2011, 03:46 PM
#43
Rennlist Member
I did mine and now 55K miles later, no leaks.
07-07-2011, 03:58 PM
#44
Three Wheelin'
Man this is such a bummer, but when the car is sorted you will LOVE it. Even with a PPI from what should be a good shop you can still have $$$ things show up that should have been found. My AC does not work at all, the tech doing the PPI must have not even tried it.
07-07-2011, 03:58 PM
#45
If I remember correctly, this motor was resealed for a leaky engine once. Then it was rebuilt. Now, they are saying that the oil loss is a result of valve covers being compromised? If those holes are there (and the problem) I bet they didn't show up yesterday (and if they did you have a pretty good idea of who might have done it). It would suck if a new set of valve covers would have got the car back on the road and relatively leak free (so the rest could be sorted of the winter).
Guy...I like your quote..."What I lack in patience and due dilligence in my spring purchases, I make up for in overall entertainment to fellow forum members." We really hate seeing you keep running full steam into the machine gun nest.
I thought we might see you last Saturday. There were a couple of hard core enthusiasts there that might have been able to provide some insight into your situation.
Guy...I like your quote..."What I lack in patience and due dilligence in my spring purchases, I make up for in overall entertainment to fellow forum members." We really hate seeing you keep running full steam into the machine gun nest.
I thought we might see you last Saturday. There were a couple of hard core enthusiasts there that might have been able to provide some insight into your situation.