The wait is over...Rebuild complete
07-07-2011, 04:15 PM
#46
Thanks G-50cab! Thank you for taking the time to upload these photos, sincerly.
Hi PNine64. I saw you post mentioning the get together but our schedule was full of family activities. At the time, I wasn't sure if I would've been welcome anyway
Next time, hopefully I will have a free schedule. If so, I'll be there!
Hi PNine64. I saw you post mentioning the get together but our schedule was full of family activities. At the time, I wasn't sure if I would've been welcome anyway
Next time, hopefully I will have a free schedule. If so, I'll be there!
07-07-2011, 05:12 PM
#47
Burning Brakes
If I remember correctly, this motor was resealed for a leaky engine once. Then it was rebuilt. Now, they are saying that the oil loss is a result of valve covers being compromised? If those holes are there (and the problem) I bet they didn't show up yesterday (and if they did you have a pretty good idea of who might have done it). It would suck if a new set of valve covers would have got the car back on the road and relatively leak free (so the rest could be sorted of the winter)....
And if they weren't leaking previously, they that could indicated that this is a new problem... which points to someone recently damaging those valve covers. Hmmmm.
Guy, we know that this has been a brutal experience for you. There is such a hunger on Rennlist to support others; and you will be embraced by asking for help. But in these public forums (Rennlist and Boston Whaler), and regardless of your individual experience, comments such as yours are very easily perceived to be unjustifed slander from an individual/isolated incident:
If you are reading this and thinking about buying a 964, please budget at least 100% the purchase price towards maintenance to actually get the vehicle to a level of respectabillity. I.e. If you want a well sorted 964 but don't have $45,000(purchase + initial maintenance) to throw at one of these vehicles, I highly recommend purchasing another make.
If you get off easier and only spend $10,000 in repairs the first six months or year of ownership, stick the balance in savings for the impending rebuild. You WILL need it at some point.
If oil leaks that would be considered severe on any other vehicle would bother you (and why wouldn't they?), please go foward knowing that your car will be in your mechanics garage more than your own. I.e. if you want the oil leaks repaired prior to driving your newly purchased 964, do not expect to drive it often (ever?).
.... For those of you who are going to question my mechanic, please feel free to do so. However, I would prefer you question Porsche. if you Google "Porsche engine leaks oil even after complete rebuild" you will find that my mechanic and I are in very good, and common, company..
If you get off easier and only spend $10,000 in repairs the first six months or year of ownership, stick the balance in savings for the impending rebuild. You WILL need it at some point.
If oil leaks that would be considered severe on any other vehicle would bother you (and why wouldn't they?), please go foward knowing that your car will be in your mechanics garage more than your own. I.e. if you want the oil leaks repaired prior to driving your newly purchased 964, do not expect to drive it often (ever?).
.... For those of you who are going to question my mechanic, please feel free to do so. However, I would prefer you question Porsche. if you Google "Porsche engine leaks oil even after complete rebuild" you will find that my mechanic and I are in very good, and common, company..
Good luck!
07-07-2011, 05:33 PM
#48
Have him seal that hole, give it back to you and you go drive it for a few weeks and see what happens. If that is the leak, I'd say screw it (literally) and just drive the car for years and not worry about that hole.
07-07-2011, 07:19 PM
#49
*Insight Define..... In this case the word 'insight' might have a completely different definition.
If this is the abuse GuyMonnin evokes in a forum - in live it would be something to behold!
07-07-2011, 07:31 PM
#50
Rennlist Member
He said the oil seems to be coming from one of these holes. The holes aren't supposed to go all the way through but...he said it's possible a previous mechanic tried to muscle a screw that was too long into this hole and blew the back out a little. With the compression, it is pushing oil through.
An oil leak on a freshly assembled engine should be easy enough to spot. But it may be a bitch to repair, especially if it's something like a case through bolt. Not-so-funnyism from Pete Zimmerman (author of The Used 911 Story, former proprietor of Redline Service in Santa Monica, and contributor over on the torsion bar 911 Forum) was that he got burned on a rebuild one time when a leak on a fresh rebuild ended up being a cracked case through bolt washer. From then on, he replaced them all on a rebuild.
This one's starting to sound like the Euro Valve replacement my BMW shop owning friend got a call on from a potential customer asking if he could do it cheaper than the dealer..........
07-07-2011, 09:45 PM
#52
Rennlist Member
07-07-2011, 10:03 PM
#53
My mechanic just called. He said that the valve covers have factory screw holes tapped into them to accomodate a bracket that organizes the spark plug wires.
He said the oil seems to be coming from one of these holes. The holes aren't supposed to go all the way through but...he said it's possible a previous mechanic tried to muscle a screw that was too long into this hole and blew the back out a little. With the compression, it is pushing oil through.
Does this sound reasonable???
He is going to put a screw into the hole with expoxy and see if this seals the leak. If it does, he will order another cover...
Thoughts please... ????
He said the oil seems to be coming from one of these holes. The holes aren't supposed to go all the way through but...he said it's possible a previous mechanic tried to muscle a screw that was too long into this hole and blew the back out a little. With the compression, it is pushing oil through.
Does this sound reasonable???
He is going to put a screw into the hole with expoxy and see if this seals the leak. If it does, he will order another cover...
Thoughts please... ????
There are some holes for wire brackets in the cover and some moron could have worked on the car and put too long of a bolt in the hole and broke the cover.
Could have been just dirt and trying to reninstall the bolt could created enough compression in the hole to break the cover.
It is possible.
But there is no compression there. Could be an oil leak, but not much if any pressure, just whatever crankcase pressure there is.
07-07-2011, 10:36 PM
#54
07-07-2011, 11:07 PM
#55
Race Director
5.0 OHV ford
4.6L 2v SOHC Ford (crown vics, town cars, etc...routinely go 200k miles with nothing done)
LS series engines, General Motors...powers everything from sierras to the ZR1
5.0L SOHC 3v Mercedes M113...extremely troublefree
4.3/4.6L DOHC V8, Lexus
hows that for a start?
07-07-2011, 11:16 PM
#56
Race Director
The same way that I wouldn't compare the use of my kids' safety scissors to a surgical blade, I think it's moot trying to compare the "shelf-life" of a Porsche engine to that of a Toyota.
These are air-cooled race engines, and you need to expect a comprehensive rebuild at 15-20 years or 100K-150K miles. I might get flamed for that statement, but it's just the way I see it. Does the knowledge of this "shelf-life" make me want to go out and buy a Toyota instead? Would I prefer to use the kids' safety scissors over my surgical steel? Not generally.
Good luck, Guy!
These are air-cooled race engines, and you need to expect a comprehensive rebuild at 15-20 years or 100K-150K miles. I might get flamed for that statement, but it's just the way I see it. Does the knowledge of this "shelf-life" make me want to go out and buy a Toyota instead? Would I prefer to use the kids' safety scissors over my surgical steel? Not generally.
Good luck, Guy!
The problem with being ok with a porsche engine only lasting 100k miles is that it generally doesn't do much better than a 3.2L BMW engine. It doesn't really make any more power, its certainly not any easier to service, and now it doesn't even last longer.
That would be like someone making kids scissors that cut more accurately than your surgical ones, yet cost less and last longer.
07-07-2011, 11:24 PM
#57
Rennlist Member
hate to be a douche here, but:
5.0 OHV ford
4.6L 2v SOHC Ford (crown vics, town cars, etc...routinely go 200k miles with nothing done)
LS series engines, General Motors...powers everything from sierras to the ZR1
5.0L SOHC 3v Mercedes M113...extremely troublefree
4.3/4.6L DOHC V8, Lexus
hows that for a start?
5.0 OHV ford
4.6L 2v SOHC Ford (crown vics, town cars, etc...routinely go 200k miles with nothing done)
LS series engines, General Motors...powers everything from sierras to the ZR1
5.0L SOHC 3v Mercedes M113...extremely troublefree
4.3/4.6L DOHC V8, Lexus
hows that for a start?
Feel free to list a Corvette. I'll raise you at least 3 engines I've known of that have grenaded from merely being subjected to T2 @ Thunderhill. This is merely 5 seconds of 1.4+ g loading. Not to mention cooling problems.
One engine I will throw out there is the Honda F20C (?) in the S2000. My friend has pounded on them mercilessly over several seasons of SCCA IT racing, even in forced induction modes (~500HP supercharged, ~550HP turbocharged). It's been so thrilling he's trying his hand in pro racing for the first time at the Laguna Grand Am this weekend. In MX-5 Cup.
07-08-2011, 01:08 AM
#59
hate to be a douche here, but:
5.0 OHV ford
4.6L 2v SOHC Ford (crown vics, town cars, etc...routinely go 200k miles with nothing done)
LS series engines, General Motors...powers everything from sierras to the ZR1
5.0L SOHC 3v Mercedes M113...extremely troublefree
4.3/4.6L DOHC V8, Lexus
hows that for a start?
5.0 OHV ford
4.6L 2v SOHC Ford (crown vics, town cars, etc...routinely go 200k miles with nothing done)
LS series engines, General Motors...powers everything from sierras to the ZR1
5.0L SOHC 3v Mercedes M113...extremely troublefree
4.3/4.6L DOHC V8, Lexus
hows that for a start?
4.6 2v, which is only 250hp in the HO version and a liter bigger.
regularly blow spark plugs out of there holes
intake leaks water
Keyways shear off the timing gears and oil pump drives
the 3v was worse
The 5.0 modular motor had the same problems the 4.6 did, sparkplugs blowing out, intake leaks and keyways breaking off.
And it was 1.4 liters bigger and in most application still didn't have the ponies of a 3.6 flat six Porsche
The LS had two significant TSB issues for piston slap and cylinder head failures.
It too, also ranged in much larger displacements than 3.6l: 4.8, 5.3, 5.7, 6.0, 6.2, 7.0.
Last edited by Makmov; 07-08-2011 at 01:25 AM.
