Well, it is alot of scratch. The odd thing is that I thought the $8,000 rebuild would include:

New pistons and cylinders
Machining of the heads
New oil senders
Resurfacing of the cams
New Distributors and rotors
etc.

But, all of that was billed extra. A lot extra. Maybe its normal, I have no idea. I just know for $ 15,000, I could buy one hell of a crate motor. Probably two or three of them.

When I took it into him, he told me it would take 3-4 weeks for the rebuild. After a month, I asked if it was ready and he told me he should get the parts back from the machine shop the next week. I called the next week and the same story. The next week, same story. The next week, the same story. None of this was a problem but one week, I wanted to bring it to my hometown fair, the next, a reunion and the next, 4th of July party - only based on the information he was giving me.

Next week my wife and I wanted to take it on vacation so I called him yesterday PM to see if he knew what was causing the oil leak and was told they were still investigating it.

I called him this morning and he told me he was going to try to keep his cool but if I wasn't rushing him on the rebuild, this probably wouldn't have happened. ?????

I didn't tell him to tell me it would take 3-4 weeks (I had and have no clue about such things). He volunteered this time frame. I only called each week because he would tell me it would be done the following week...now he is telling me I rushed him and this wouldn't have happened if I hadn't pushed him?

When I get the car back, he will have had it for almost 3-months and I am rushing him?

 

As many of you have stated, if I had done a PPI prior to purchase, I may have been able to knock 10K off the price, or walked away. I would have most likely walked away and continued to look for a good car.

As Kai has pointed out, most of my research has been done after the fact. I had never heard of a PPI until I already owned this Porsche. I simply called the mechanic that the seller had tens of thousands in receipts and he endorsed the car completely. Unforunately, that was enough for me.

Now...Damn Dude! I could have bought an BMW E39 M5 with 400 HP AND an M roadster with 315 HP and still had enough left over to go to St. Thomas with the wife.

I sure hope she doesn't read this forum....

 

remember.....there's NOTHING like driving a well sorted 911. now he's blaming you for rushing him? checking in on your Porsche and $20K investment seems reasonable to me. I'd recommend finding an alternate shop for an independent second opinion.

 

Sorry to hear about this, it does no good to armchair quarterback this, a good shop and solid PPI are the only protection from this.

That is a lot of bling, for that kind of outlay you should expect (and demand) a perfect motor. Few people can build them as good as the factory, I shy away from motors that have had a lot of work for just that reason. But water under the bridge.

Unless it was a really sloppy rebuild I'd be looking at a rocker shaft loose or slid out of it's bore. If the guy is getting frustrated you'd rather him not tear into the whole thing when it could be a simple thing...

Good luck, hoping it's simple...

 

Although you have the right to be pissed at your car and the repair shop, I find your post to be over the top in warning others about the potential costs of 964 ownership. Warnings that are based solely on your own experience of buying a bad example and then being strung along by a mechanic that has talked you into spending more than you needed to. And then it would appear that they are not very good at rebuilding 964 engines!

Although we know that 964s come with a price to pay for maintenance, your own experience is not the same as the majority on this board of very well informed 964 owners. My own full rebuild was done by a very well respected Porsche specialist, took 2 months to complete, cost half of what you paid, does not leak and pulls as good as it would have done when it left the factory.

It is your right to have a moan about your experience but I don't think you have the right to suggest that most 964s are the same as yours.

 

If some jackass I had forked over $15k to had the ***** to tell me he was "trying to keep his cool" I wouldnt be venting on a forum... Id be picking my car up... Telling him to go F himself and to keep an eye out for the lawsuit (even if I didnt do it, sometimes feels good to say it ) and then would immediately ask HERE for a *good* independent in my geography, bring the car to HIM, get it sorted and then spend the rest of my life posting on every forum I could find to NEVER use shop A and to ALWAYS use shop B who had the skill to fix what they F'd up.

That all assumes, of course, that the story is exactly as told (which rarely seems to be the case, honestly), but you never know.

 

I've been reading your thread for a couple of months now. I was indignant last time I contributed, thinking this had to be a hoax. I'm beginning to believe you're for real though.

You exercised bad judgement in buying the car. Now you've obviously exercised poor judgement in having the car repaired.

You used a garage that obviously doesn't know what they're doing and apparently took you to the cleaners while doing it. You've invested twice what the car will ever be worth and contrary to the previous posts, you will probably never be happy with the car and enjoy driving it.

My suggestion is to sell the car as soon as the garage makes it right, which I trust they will. Get as much as you can a quickly as you can and go buy yourself a car with a crate motor.

Sorry to be so negative, but sometimes a good punch in the face is the best thing for someone who's gone off the deep end.

Good luck with your next car!

 

"Sometimes a good punch in the face is the best thing"

That is pure internet gold. Thank you for making me laugh in this otherwise depressing thread. .

 

There was no way of predicting this...

 

Yawn. Let's see, I've got the 3.8 in the yellow car that Steve Weiner did EIGHT years ago, and it's 100% dry. Heads came off the C4S in '02 for the typical SAI/guide repair, and 75K later it's still dry. RSA was a 140K original when I sold it in January. Worst leaking was from the chain housings, and that would only lead to a bit of a film on the decklid/under the spoiler after ~200 hard track miles. Got a 197K core I pulled out of a cab a couple of years ago that I just started busting down for a project. It's pretty dry. Etc.

Oh, and there are those 200-odd POS (mainly) mag case 911 engines I pieced together from '81-'95 when I either worked as a mechanic or had my shops. Know how many engines had to get busted down for leaks after reassembly? Can't say zero, but I doubt it was more than five. Just have to take care, and know what the hell you're doing.

I laughed when I read it was a suspect "warped" cam tower. Know how solid those things are?

With pretty much a single exception (2.7L mag case engines, and that's easily if not inexpensively correctable), I'd like to know what automotive engine in stock form has proven itself to be more robust for the power output achieved?

 

I'm not trying to argue or even remotely stating I took the right path. I am sharing my story. Glad to hear a cam tower is robust so my mechanic doesn't try to hose me on a re-machining or replacement. Thanks to those who aren't flaming me. This sucks!

 

In reading back over the threads you've been given a lot of good advice, including your own shop that suggested you send it out to a well known reputable builder. There is a wealth of experience and knowledge here on rennlist and I can see why everyone is frustrated when they give you good advice and you choose to ignore it to your own peril and blame the marque. You gotta be fair...

 

First point - Due Diligence and Personal Responsibility

Five years ago I purchased my first p-car - a "collector" 1976 911 from a retiree who had owned it for 10 years. No PPI. It had a full set of receipts, including for a complete engine rebuild in the mid-1990s. On delivery, there was an oil leak and the sportomatic gears were crunching, so I dropped her off for a service. The diagnosis was grim, and included the need for a full engine and gearbox teardown, as well as electrics, wheel bearings etc etc. I was quoted $12K for the work initially, and given a time frame of 2-3 months.

I was furious. The PO was not interested in my concerns or requests for a return/refund. The Consumer Affairs Department asked if I had organised a PPI, then shrugged when I said "no", and stated there was no recourse for me. I picked her up from the workshop - after 9 months, and $30K worth of engine and gearbox work!!!

After some initial hiccups with a poorly seated rear-main bearing causing an oil leak, I have loved the car since, it has been a delight to own and drive, and completely trouble free.

Being a little older and wiser, and having become a risk consultant of sorts, I have realised that in the absence of me having conducted my due diligence, the fault was entirely mine. I could have stayed angry at the PO, or taken it out on the car, or the marque. But the reality is that I had only myself to blame.

Having just purchased a 1993 964, I was very careful to undertake all the necessary checks this time around to avoid a repeat of the last purchase. In fact, part of that was considering many alternate marques and cars in my search over the last 2 years, but I couldn't stay away from another 911 despite my first bad experience. Which brings me to -

Second Point - Quality, Performance and Longevity

Being in the medical field, the equipment I use is state-of-the-art and highly engineered. Even something as simple as a pair of surgical scissors is engineered with utmost precision. However, generally speaking, many of these items are only good for a single use. This short life has nothing to do with their quality or performance.

Porsches engines are highly engineered for performance. Considering that the race-engines of their derivation probably only last 100-or-so hours, to have built a production engine that is reknowned for its performance and relative longevity is a feat in itself. The same way that I wouldn't compare the use of my kids' safety scissors to a surgical blade, I think it's moot trying to compare the "shelf-life" of a Porsche engine to that of a Toyota.

These are air-cooled race engines, and you need to expect a comprehensive rebuild at 15-20 years or 100K-150K miles. I might get flamed for that statement, but it's just the way I see it. Does the knowledge of this "shelf-life" make me want to go out and buy a Toyota instead? Would I prefer to use the kids' safety scissors over my surgical steel? Not generally.

Good luck, Guy!

 

+964

Stating the obvious - It's clear the problem is not the car but the owner.

 

Too bad about your problems - some of which may have been avoidable.

I just got my car back from a lengthy rebuild (most of the delay was my fault in sourcing specific parts I wanted used). It also cost quite a bit of coin as I had a shed-load of other stuff done and upgraded, while-we-were-in-there.

Engine dripped a little at the first track outing but as soon as I got home, the shop fixed it on their dime in a couple of days (poorly seated rocker shaft gasket). Dry every since.

Get the right shop and it will be done right.

Marc