15% Ethanol?
#17
RL Technical Advisor
JMHO,....but this is a big steaming pile of "Bad News" if E10 is replaced with E15 due to logistical issues at gas stations.
For cars without stainless-steel or plastic fuel tanks, SS fuel lines, Viton seals, hoses, and O-rings in the fuel delivery system, this will cause a LOT of grief, not to mention the drop in fuel economy and performance. Naturally, this applies to cars built before 2001 aside from Flex-fuel vehicles which are so equipped.
Politics trumps technology, yet again.
For cars without stainless-steel or plastic fuel tanks, SS fuel lines, Viton seals, hoses, and O-rings in the fuel delivery system, this will cause a LOT of grief, not to mention the drop in fuel economy and performance. Naturally, this applies to cars built before 2001 aside from Flex-fuel vehicles which are so equipped.
Politics trumps technology, yet again.
#19
Let the gas stations where you buy your gas know how you feel! Tell them that if they install E15 pumps (even if E10 is still offered), you will not purchase gas at their station any longer. They do not want to lose any potential customers. The more people that casually mention that, the better the message will get across.
#21
Three Wheelin'
Just for the record, I am a rabid loony lefter, and contrary to perceptions, I concur with you about the fuel, and how wasteful it is to make fuel from corn. Can we agree though to leave the political attacks aside? It just seems like a waste of energy.
My big worry is the coming marginalization of those of us with older performance oriented cars. Its bad enough we have E15, taking up some, or many of the available pumps, and then on the other end, Google is crowing about cars that can now drive themselves. It's all going Beige before our eyes...
My big worry is the coming marginalization of those of us with older performance oriented cars. Its bad enough we have E15, taking up some, or many of the available pumps, and then on the other end, Google is crowing about cars that can now drive themselves. It's all going Beige before our eyes...
Tom, could not have said it better...ALL of it...
#23
Nordschleife Master
http://wikicars.org/en/Koenigsegg_CCXR
"The engine tune in the CCXR is more powerful than that of the CCX, putting out 759 kilowatts (1004 bhp) at 7200 rpm and 1060 Newton metres of torque at 6100 rpm, 25% more power than the CCX.[2][3] Christian von Koenigsegg said that "Our engineers couldn't quite believe the figures when we tested the car".[4] The increased power is a result of the cooling properties of ethanol in the engine's combustion chambers allowing for a higher pressure in the cylinder and the biofuel having a higher octane rating of 113 RON compared to 95 RON for petrol in North America and 100 RON for petrol in Europe..."
"The engine tune in the CCXR is more powerful than that of the CCX, putting out 759 kilowatts (1004 bhp) at 7200 rpm and 1060 Newton metres of torque at 6100 rpm, 25% more power than the CCX.[2][3] Christian von Koenigsegg said that "Our engineers couldn't quite believe the figures when we tested the car".[4] The increased power is a result of the cooling properties of ethanol in the engine's combustion chambers allowing for a higher pressure in the cylinder and the biofuel having a higher octane rating of 113 RON compared to 95 RON for petrol in North America and 100 RON for petrol in Europe..."
#24
But if you run a suitably high compression to maximize the volumetric efficiency of E100 (pure ethanol), doesn't that preclude you from running gasoline in the same engine (due to detonation issues)???
#25
Nordschleife Master
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volumetric_efficiency
Yes , no and maybe .
Yes it precludes if the car / motor isn't made for ethanol / gasoline .
Its not precluded if the car / motor is made for ethanol / gasoline .
The question maybe is how to do a car / motor for ethanol and have it also run gasoline .
Obviously the parts have all got to be compatible with ethanol and gasoline .
The compression can be non-variable and the power out put computer limited .
The compression can be made variable with an extra valve to a closed pocket .
The fuel system can be made to switch from one octane to another as needed .
The BigStuff3 has the ability to run a low octane / low cost fuel until the high octane / high price fuel is needed .
http://bigstuff3.com/
Yes it precludes if the car / motor isn't made for ethanol / gasoline .
Its not precluded if the car / motor is made for ethanol / gasoline .
The question maybe is how to do a car / motor for ethanol and have it also run gasoline .
Obviously the parts have all got to be compatible with ethanol and gasoline .
The compression can be non-variable and the power out put computer limited .
The compression can be made variable with an extra valve to a closed pocket .
The fuel system can be made to switch from one octane to another as needed .
The BigStuff3 has the ability to run a low octane / low cost fuel until the high octane / high price fuel is needed .
http://bigstuff3.com/
#26
#27
the easiest way would be with a variable boost charger, maybe use a Miller Cycle.
although they haven't been able to produce a practical variable compression engine yet, but there are people working on it.
At the end of the day what you probably will end up with is an all season tires, which sucks in all seasons.
I.E. an engine with a little too much compression for gasoline and not enough for ethanol. The compression ratio spread is a big bridge to gap.
Gasoline 9:1 - 11:1 practical pump gas street range (Porsche is one of the few that has managed high compression that will run on pump gas though)
Ethanol 14:1 - 18:1 practical efficency range
Another thing would be a volume consideration as you would need a lot more ethonal than gasoline.
although they haven't been able to produce a practical variable compression engine yet, but there are people working on it.
At the end of the day what you probably will end up with is an all season tires, which sucks in all seasons.
I.E. an engine with a little too much compression for gasoline and not enough for ethanol. The compression ratio spread is a big bridge to gap.
Gasoline 9:1 - 11:1 practical pump gas street range (Porsche is one of the few that has managed high compression that will run on pump gas though)
Ethanol 14:1 - 18:1 practical efficency range
Another thing would be a volume consideration as you would need a lot more ethonal than gasoline.
#28
With a recent law change, here in Oregon, non-ethanol premium is now available at many stations for use in cars - I found a local station that's now my 'go-to' joint for all my cars. Expensive, but worth it.