The Brewmeister

I think it's time for a new adage:

To err is human, to really screw things up requires a politician or gov't bureaucrat.

Steve Weiner-Rennsport Systems

JMHO,....but this is a big steaming pile of "Bad News" if E10 is replaced with E15 due to logistical issues at gas stations.

For cars without stainless-steel or plastic fuel tanks, SS fuel lines, Viton seals, hoses, and O-rings in the fuel delivery system, this will cause a LOT of grief, not to mention the drop in fuel economy and performance. Naturally, this applies to cars built before 2001 aside from Flex-fuel vehicles which are so equipped.

Politics trumps technology, yet again.

UncleRemus

As I posted above, this is not a mandate for E-15 at all. It seems like a suggestion to ADD E-15 to the E-10 mandate.

KNS

Let the gas stations where you buy your gas know how you feel! Tell them that if they install E15 pumps (even if E10 is still offered), you will not purchase gas at their station any longer. They do not want to lose any potential customers. The more people that casually mention that, the better the message will get across.

Indycam

I would like an E100 pump .

Bearclaw

+1
Tom, could not have said it better...ALL of it...

hamah

Here in Canada we can still get Ethanol free gas from Chevron. I think the Supreme is 94 octane. I hope that doesn't go away anytime soon.

Indycam

http://wikicars.org/en/Koenigsegg_CCXR

"The engine tune in the CCXR is more powerful than that of the CCX, putting out 759 kilowatts (1004 bhp) at 7200 rpm and 1060 Newton metres of torque at 6100 rpm, 25% more power than the CCX.[2][3] Christian von Koenigsegg said that "Our engineers couldn't quite believe the figures when we tested the car".[4] The increased power is a result of the cooling properties of ethanol in the engine's combustion chambers allowing for a higher pressure in the cylinder and the biofuel having a higher octane rating of 113 RON compared to 95 RON for petrol in North America and 100 RON for petrol in Europe..."

stinkydog

But if you run a suitably high compression to maximize the volumetric efficiency of E100 (pure ethanol), doesn't that preclude you from running gasoline in the same engine (due to detonation issues)???

Indycam

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volumetric_efficiency

Yes , no and maybe .
Yes it precludes if the car / motor isn't made for ethanol / gasoline .
Its not precluded if the car / motor is made for ethanol / gasoline .

The question maybe is how to do a car / motor for ethanol and have it also run gasoline .
Obviously the parts have all got to be compatible with ethanol and gasoline .
The compression can be non-variable and the power out put computer limited .
The compression can be made variable with an extra valve to a closed pocket .
The fuel system can be made to switch from one octane to another as needed .
The BigStuff3 has the ability to run a low octane / low cost fuel until the high octane / high price fuel is needed .
http://bigstuff3.com/

stinkydog

Yeah I meant "for" rather than "of".

Makmov

the easiest way would be with a variable boost charger, maybe use a Miller Cycle.

although they haven't been able to produce a practical variable compression engine yet, but there are people working on it.

At the end of the day what you probably will end up with is an all season tires, which sucks in all seasons.

I.E. an engine with a little too much compression for gasoline and not enough for ethanol. The compression ratio spread is a big bridge to gap.

Gasoline 9:1 - 11:1 practical pump gas street range (Porsche is one of the few that has managed high compression that will run on pump gas though)
Ethanol 14:1 - 18:1 practical efficency range

Another thing would be a volume consideration as you would need a lot more ethonal than gasoline.

Shamus964

With a recent law change, here in Oregon, non-ethanol premium is now available at many stations for use in cars - I found a local station that's now my 'go-to' joint for all my cars. Expensive, but worth it.