tbennett017

Heard a story this AM on NPR about the fuel industry pushing 15% Ethanol at the pump. They're doing testing on 2007 and later cars... but what about our air-cooled cars?

I am guessing this is bad news.. anyone got an educated opinion?

jimq

I believe the 15% is approved. They are now testing 2001-2007 cars.

stinkydog

Bad news unless you're a member of the corn lobby.

You always hear a lot of talk about evil "Big Oil", but rarely anything about "Big Ag".

tbennett017

Okay, but specifically, is there a risk to the air cooled heads/valves or anything?

Makmov

Ethanol in gasoline

1. It's corrosive, especailly on aluminum.
2. Disolves certian plastics and rubber orings and gaskets, the ones it doesn't disolve it will dry them out hard as rocks.
3. Absorbes water
4. Tends to gum up stuff because it's a solvent it will disolve natrually occuring varnishes in the motor and the goo gets in to fuel injectors, sensors and other componets.
5. And it doesn't get particularly good mileage and down grades the performance slighty.

and at 15% is getting to the limit that you can successfully mix ethanol and gasoline before it starts seperating faster than you can use it up.

It's exactly like mixing water and oil. After a long time even 10% with start to seperate.

And last I knew it was still taking about 4 gallons of diesel to make 1 gallon of ethanol.

I have no idea why the looney left thinks this is a good idea. Stick that in your donkey's *** and see how he likes it.

Nader Fotouhi

This article makes it sound like there is a choice.

http://content.usatoday.com/communit...from-10-now-/1

Makmov

Actually it soulds like there is no choice for older cars as it is illegal to run E15 in cars built after 2007.

E10 rule still applies.

ValveFloat

That is interesting, thanks for posting the link.
After reading that I found this:
http://yosemite.epa.gov/opa/admpress...f!OpenDocument

There are a couple interesting things there, interesting to me anyway.
One is what difference is there between all 2006 cars and 2007 cars that makes the newer cars safe to use E15?

If this "requirement" is actually followed it would be the one good thing I can see coming from this...
Besides the corrosive effects of ethanol mentioned above the other potential danger to our engines is that ethanol has a lower stoichiometric air to fuel ratio than gasoline. So under WOT conditions our engines will run leaner.
If my calculations are correct, if the engine is tuned to run at 13.0:1 on gasoline, it would be at 13.8:1 on E15.

UncleRemus

As somebody closely tied to this news, I can tell you that *if* retail stations choose to stock E-15, it will be a separate pump. One of my competitors claims that the EPA decision does not mandate the use of E-15, so they do not plan to offer it.

I agree about all the ag lobby comments as well . . . I don't understand why I, as a consumer, should pay more for gas, food, and get less mileage and rot rubber in the process.

tbennett017

Just for the record, I am a rabid loony lefter, and contrary to perceptions, I concur with you about the fuel, and how wasteful it is to make fuel from corn. Can we agree though to leave the political attacks aside? It just seems like a waste of energy.

My big worry is the coming marginalization of those of us with older performance oriented cars. Its bad enough we have E15, taking up some, or many of the available pumps, and then on the other end, Google is crowing about cars that can now drive themselves. It's all going Beige before our eyes...

Makmov

Oh, yeah. I just assumed P-car pilots leaned right. So by no means take it personal.

But you have to admit that was funny.

Tuscany964

I used 15% ethanol as a cheap fuel to put in the rental car in Oz last winter but would not use it in an a/c. That's what 100 octane premium is for

tbennett017

I wish we could get 100, but the best I can do in Oregon USA is 92.

Greg964

Yeah this really sucks, another terrible idea from the Obama administration. This is a potential nightmare for owners of old cars, boats, bikes.

ChaseN

100 RON (the European method of rating octane) is comparable to 93 AKI (the US method of rating).

I listened to T. Boone Pickens speak at the 2010 NADA convention about the future of US energy. I won't go into detail as this isn't OT, but suffice to say, it's downright despicable what midwestern senators/reps are doing to get ethanol mixed with gasoline. To the detriment of most of America, not just us old sports car nuts.