turbo
09-15-2009, 04:09 PM
#16
Three Wheelin'
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Best thing to do is get all the research - you can on forced induction and the issues faced with adding it to high compression engine....then decide.
Am interested in seeing dyno sheet!!
09-15-2009, 04:35 PM
#17
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Absolutely correct....(not to argue s'charger against turbo)- for low to mid boost installations - supercharger does tend to deliver power earlier and in a more linear fashion and big issue for low to mid boost installs its usually lighter (no plumbing).
Best thing to do is get all the research - you can on forced induction and the issues faced with adding it to high compression engine....then decide.
Am interested in seeing dyno sheet!!
Best thing to do is get all the research - you can on forced induction and the issues faced with adding it to high compression engine....then decide.
Am interested in seeing dyno sheet!!
again not looking to start an argument just trying to understand the market place and the lack of SC manufactures for 964's...
09-15-2009, 04:48 PM
#18
Agent Orange
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Can I ask why sink all that money into a plain Jane 964 instead of getting a 965? The cost of the car + cost of turbo = a decent 965 3.3 turbo. And the turbo is a better car with a better resale value any way you look at it.
And as to why TPC or Promotive or anyone else don't make more kits, it's a simple: there is no market. There weren't that many cars produced to begin with, they are older, and only a few people are looking to get those kits. I doubt TPC or Promotive move more than a dozen units a year of those kits. There is no real profit in that. That's why most of the tuner companies have concentrated on the 987, 996, and 997 platforms. They are new and Porsche made a ****load of them. Oh yeah, and they are dirt cheap these days
And as to why TPC or Promotive or anyone else don't make more kits, it's a simple: there is no market. There weren't that many cars produced to begin with, they are older, and only a few people are looking to get those kits. I doubt TPC or Promotive move more than a dozen units a year of those kits. There is no real profit in that. That's why most of the tuner companies have concentrated on the 987, 996, and 997 platforms. They are new and Porsche made a ****load of them. Oh yeah, and they are dirt cheap these days
09-15-2009, 04:53 PM
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Can I ask why sink all that money into a plain Jane 964 instead of getting a 965? The cost of the car + cost of turbo = a decent 965 3.3 turbo. And the turbo is a better car with a better resale value any way you look at it.
And as to why TPC or Promotive or anyone else don't make more kits, it's a simple: there is no market. There weren't that many cars produced to begin with, they are older, and only a few people are looking to get those kits. I doubt TPC or Promotive move more than a dozen units a year of those kits. There is no real profit in that. That's why most of the tuner companies have concentrated on the 987, 996, and 997 platforms. They are new and Porsche made a ****load of them. Oh yeah, and they are dirt cheap these days
And as to why TPC or Promotive or anyone else don't make more kits, it's a simple: there is no market. There weren't that many cars produced to begin with, they are older, and only a few people are looking to get those kits. I doubt TPC or Promotive move more than a dozen units a year of those kits. There is no real profit in that. That's why most of the tuner companies have concentrated on the 987, 996, and 997 platforms. They are new and Porsche made a ****load of them. Oh yeah, and they are dirt cheap these days
09-15-2009, 05:25 PM
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Can I ask why sink all that money into a plain Jane 964 instead of getting a 965? The cost of the car + cost of turbo = a decent 965 3.3 turbo. And the turbo is a better car with a better resale value any way you look at it.
And as to why TPC or Promotive or anyone else don't make more kits, it's a simple: there is no market. There weren't that many cars produced to begin with, they are older, and only a few people are looking to get those kits. I doubt TPC or Promotive move more than a dozen units a year of those kits. There is no real profit in that. That's why most of the tuner companies have concentrated on the 987, 996, and 997 platforms. They are new and Porsche made a ****load of them. Oh yeah, and they are dirt cheap these days
And as to why TPC or Promotive or anyone else don't make more kits, it's a simple: there is no market. There weren't that many cars produced to begin with, they are older, and only a few people are looking to get those kits. I doubt TPC or Promotive move more than a dozen units a year of those kits. There is no real profit in that. That's why most of the tuner companies have concentrated on the 987, 996, and 997 platforms. They are new and Porsche made a ****load of them. Oh yeah, and they are dirt cheap these days
Protomotive also states they they have sold a few thousand of these system in the past 10 years. there is still a good size market out there for these systems.
09-15-2009, 05:38 PM
#21
Three Wheelin'
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well from what I have looked the turbos are more money then it would be for my PP plus the install. Plus i would not want to take a specialty car like a turbo and start playing around with it.. Any of these cars like a turbo that has been tweeked and aftermarket parts added seem to lose value. On mine I feel it would gain value not as much as I pay for the turbo but still some return.
I guess it is an option to get a turbo as well or instead. will look into that. so ilko you would not turbo or s/c any car? just get the stock from the factory? any issues on teh 3.3 that I should know.
I guess it is an option to get a turbo as well or instead. will look into that. so ilko you would not turbo or s/c any car? just get the stock from the factory? any issues on teh 3.3 that I should know.
09-15-2009, 05:51 PM
#22
Agent Orange
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You really believe those claims?
If there were 2000 TPC superchargers out there that would mean that close to 1 in 10 964/993 cars are supercharged!
And Promotive's web site looks like it's from 2001, it is hosted on Geocities or something. If you run a business these days, you better have a quality web presence. Do you really believe that if they sold "a few thousand" kits they wouldn't try and make it look like a real company?
If there were 2000 TPC superchargers out there that would mean that close to 1 in 10 964/993 cars are supercharged!
And Promotive's web site looks like it's from 2001, it is hosted on Geocities or something. If you run a business these days, you better have a quality web presence. Do you really believe that if they sold "a few thousand" kits they wouldn't try and make it look like a real company?
09-15-2009, 05:54 PM
#23
Agent Orange
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wellcraft, your car will not gain value, believe me.
I personally wouldn't spend the money on adding a blower on a N/A car. Mine came that way, I love it, but I wouldn't have chosen to do it if I had the opportunity. I'd rather have the engine rebuilt and remapped for that money. That would definitely increase the value of the car.
I personally wouldn't spend the money on adding a blower on a N/A car. Mine came that way, I love it, but I wouldn't have chosen to do it if I had the opportunity. I'd rather have the engine rebuilt and remapped for that money. That would definitely increase the value of the car.
09-15-2009, 05:59 PM
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Protomotive also states they they have sold a few thousand of these system in the past 10 years. there is still a good size market out there for these systems.
09-15-2009, 06:34 PM
#25
Three Wheelin'
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well Blue I really doubt my car is only worth 15k. Even in this down market. I have a 91 with 50,000 miles in mint condition with rebuilt drivetrain etc. I would not take less then 22k or more for it.
I really don't care about resale etc anyway or does it make sense to do a mod just want to get opinions on if safe or real world exp. If I cared about throwing good money after bad I would never change the oil because that would just be throwing money away that I would never see back or better yet buy any car.
I really don't care about resale etc anyway or does it make sense to do a mod just want to get opinions on if safe or real world exp. If I cared about throwing good money after bad I would never change the oil because that would just be throwing money away that I would never see back or better yet buy any car.
09-15-2009, 06:38 PM
#26
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[QUOTE=ilko;6906151]You really believe those claims?
If there were 2000 TPC superchargers out there that would mean that close to 1 in 10 964/993 cars are supercharged!
And Promotive's web site looks like it's from 2001, it is hosted on Geocities or something. If you run a business these days, you better have a quality web presence. Do you really believe that if they sold "a few thousand" kits they wouldn't try and make it look like a real company?[/QUOTE
It's hard for me to believe anyone one when it comes to Porsche ...it seems alot of folks talk loads of $h!t... What I can tell you is I've seen Eddie Bello 1100+ hp Turbo car and that is real. I have had many many discussion with him regarding SC and turbo - His feeling is TURBO hands down. SO I believe him because I've seen what he can do with the car. I know Low boost can work on these cars.
As for good investment I don't think many of us are going to get back what we put into the cars anyway. So to sell my car for a loss and 15k - 20k additonal for 3.3 turbo seems like more of a leap for me.
or maybe I'll wait a while until I find a great deal on a 993 TT. Thoses deals are coming sooner or later.
If there were 2000 TPC superchargers out there that would mean that close to 1 in 10 964/993 cars are supercharged!
And Promotive's web site looks like it's from 2001, it is hosted on Geocities or something. If you run a business these days, you better have a quality web presence. Do you really believe that if they sold "a few thousand" kits they wouldn't try and make it look like a real company?[/QUOTE
It's hard for me to believe anyone one when it comes to Porsche ...it seems alot of folks talk loads of $h!t... What I can tell you is I've seen Eddie Bello 1100+ hp Turbo car and that is real. I have had many many discussion with him regarding SC and turbo - His feeling is TURBO hands down. SO I believe him because I've seen what he can do with the car. I know Low boost can work on these cars.
As for good investment I don't think many of us are going to get back what we put into the cars anyway. So to sell my car for a loss and 15k - 20k additonal for 3.3 turbo seems like more of a leap for me.
or maybe I'll wait a while until I find a great deal on a 993 TT. Thoses deals are coming sooner or later.
09-15-2009, 07:05 PM
#27
Three Wheelin'
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agree with above posts - general rule of thumb......always cheaper (and often safer) to buy power on the hoof rather than modify and that is especially true if you are dependent on shop labor for the installation.
personal view (no arguments) the 964 in terms of performance adders - seems better suited to weight reduction/suspension modification, and for power adder built out to a 3.8 (naturally aspirated).
personal view (no arguments) the 964 in terms of performance adders - seems better suited to weight reduction/suspension modification, and for power adder built out to a 3.8 (naturally aspirated).
09-15-2009, 07:20 PM
#28
Three Wheelin'
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rasp problem in my mind of a 3.8 is it is expensive with nominal gains. I have seen or heard that the costs to build a 3.8 is between 15-20k. I just feel I will be very close to what I have now but more expenisive. If I could get 150 hp more then maybe worth it.
09-15-2009, 07:53 PM
#29
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well Blue I really doubt my car is only worth 15k. Even in this down market. I have a 91 with 50,000 miles in mint condition with rebuilt drivetrain etc. I would not take less then 22k or more for it.
I really don't care about resale etc anyway or does it make sense to do a mod just want to get opinions on if safe or real world exp. If I cared about throwing good money after bad I would never change the oil because that would just be throwing money away that I would never see back or better yet buy any car.
I really don't care about resale etc anyway or does it make sense to do a mod just want to get opinions on if safe or real world exp. If I cared about throwing good money after bad I would never change the oil because that would just be throwing money away that I would never see back or better yet buy any car.
Personally I love the idea of low boost intercooled turbo on high compression. Reason being you can run a small turbo that will have quick response and full boost at low rpms. Perfect for street driving.
09-15-2009, 08:02 PM
#30
Three Wheelin'
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Blueheeler I agree with the setup. It should be amazing. Actually driven a stage 1 964 and it is incredible. and 964 I agree we all do things we will never see a return on.
Oh well live and learn but when I am living and learning with a turbo I will be a head faster
I just need to see if anyone else has done it only know of one guy with the kit and teh car was great.
Oh well live and learn but when I am living and learning with a turbo I will be a head faster
I just need to see if anyone else has done it only know of one guy with the kit and teh car was great.