964speed

Anyone has any experience working with TWM 3006 series Throttle Bodies - Electromotive TEC-3R engine management system?

http://www.twminduction.com/Throttle...leBody-FR.html

mpeters951

I'm not but intend to do something on this theme when rebuild time comes around. I'd also really like to hear some real world experiences for PMO or TWM plus Motec, Electromotive and all the ancillaries needed.

Geoffrey

I've used all of the aformentioned ITB. The 3006 are absolute garbage. The linkages are extremely difficulty to adjust and sync. They tend to leak at the o-rings in the fuel rails. The length is not ideal for our engines and it moves the power around.

The TWM 3003 and PMO as far as I can tell are nearly identical. They are a good inexpensive ITB, but suffer from the same issue as carbs. The inner cylinders #2 and #5 have a shorter intake length than the outer cylinders and makes for a different air fuel ratio. If you use an engine dyno and EGT probes you an tune around it, or you can simply ignore it and plan for that in the programming. I'm just finishing an engine with the PMOs now. I believe that TWM may not make the larger 48mm 3003s any longer and they didn't mate exactly to the 50mm PMO manifolds, but like I said, they work well for the cost.

964speed

My understanding is 3003 series with the proper coil packs and Electromotive TEC-3R mgmt system you can expect a gain of 30 - 40 hp. Does that sound about right?

Geoffrey

Proper coil packs? What does that mean? The Electromotive igntion system is an inductive ignition system based off of GM designed coil packs and are configured in a waste spark configuration. I would much rather have the factory distributor than the Electromotive components.

I think you'd upgrade the camshafts, exhaust, cylinder heads, and induction together which would give you 30-40hp.

ITBs on their own doesn't make much sense to me.

Steve Weiner-Rennsport Systems

Totally agree,..on all counts,....

I have a much better ITB option but its not inexpensive. Contact me directly for details.

964speed

Clewett Engineering website details a comprehensive set up using coil packs engine mgmt system and ITB's. there are many otions for coil packs agmost other options as well. Hence the nature of my question.

Geoffrey

There are many engine management / ignition systems that will run the engine. For me, MoTeC with the standard ignition system is the least complex and most reliable avenue to pursue (IMO) and others aren't worth looking at.

I have Steve's ITBs on my car which are very similar to the Ninemeister ITBs and both represent the best available, but as Steve says are costly.

NineMeister

In my experience there are possibilities to gain power with ITB's on a standard engine provided they are complemented by a suitable equal length header package and engine management system, however I can understand others being sceptical about the results because the degree of gain caught me by surprise.

My customer came in with stock 911 Carrera 3.2, we dyno it then remove the engine. In goes a 993 Varioram engine on 9m throttle bodies with 9m equal length headers and (of course) Motec engine management (on stock ignition system). The dyno results show the stock 3.2 engine in green (234hp), the 993 ITB engine in red & a similar motec equipped 993NVR engine for comparison. As can clearly be seen, the ITB & header package makes significantly more power at the top end at the sacrifice of a small amount of torque in the mid range, however the fun is cut short by the self-imposed 7000rpm rev limit.

The complete 9m ITB package including twin cable linkages, insulators, annodised CNC billet manifolds, throttle bodies, fuel rails, carbon air horns & air cleaners costs £2590 excluding shipping & taxes.

N51

Colin,
By the rev limiter or something else? Cam, heads, valves, etc? By the chart and the sum of the parts, it looks finished.

Has Motec released pricing for their knock sensor?

Geoffrey

MoTeC has released pricing for the knock module and I've attended the mandatory dealer training. It is an interesting piece, but the thing I took away from it was that the way we tune engines today is no different than with a knock sensor and the knock sensor will only protect against detonation once it is detected and the engine will not return to the original ignition timing value until the engine has cooled. It was an interesting 2 days on the dyno. I have decided that although I could add the knock sensing module to my engine I don't feel it necessary.

N51

Geoffrey,

Whether Motec or Motronics, the knock sensor is there to prevent continued knock and, hopefully, prevent engine damage. Neither will prevent the initial event from occurring. From your reply, I believe you would agree with this.

If so, wouldn't you, also, recognize some circumstances are hidden from the driver - particularly fuel quality issues? Not to doubt your or anyone else's ability to tune within certain parameters, but it is the inability to maintain control of those parameters that, at least for me, makes knock sensors desirous. Insurance against the unknown and prevention of the worst scenario.

In the module, what parameters can be tuned?

Thanks,

roadsleeper

I'm a fan...


PMOs...


Motec M600 w/ knock sensor...

964speed

Very nice...

Geoffrey

Noah,

The MoTeC knock control system has a number of parameters and tables that can be set up to control knock. Configuration will depend on the installation and intended usage so naturally it is very flexible.

You can select the frequency to listen to the knock on and within that, you can bound it by RPM if necessary due to noise.
You can specify the window of crank angle to listen to knock at to improve sensitivity and reduce background interference
You can set throttle position at which to turn on or off at
You can select individual knock detection or global knock detection
You can specify an amount of retard to apply if the sensor fails
You can send a knock warning signal to a light or textual display like a MoTeC ADL2 in my car
You can specify a knock threshold noise limit
You can specify the amount of retard applied as a percentage of the knock signal over the knock threshold limit
You can specify the rate of retard
You can specify the amount of advance reapplied once the knocking has stopped
You can specify the rate of advance
There are both long term and short term retard trims, much like short term and long term lambda trims.
You can specify the maximum amount of retard that can be applied

There is probably more, but these are the ones I can name off the top of my head.