Time to sale my baby... how much do you think?
08-27-2009, 03:55 AM
#1
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
Time to sale my baby... how much do you think?
Hi,
I meet some health problems and obviously racing will no longer be for me, so I guess it's time to sale my baby 964
I bought it in Europe in early 2000 as a club car and got it totally transformed in 2002 by SportDrive and RGM, race car builders in France.
Last year it has been dismantled for a third ultimate evolution: conversion to twin turbo, removed glass fiber body panels and windows.
The plan was to use a mono-piece 993 EVO front panel made of carbon (GT-Racing) and use lightweight Lexan windows. I also had rain gutters removed for better aerodynamics (and also so much beautiful). The car is now naked. Just the chassis with four wheels, gearbox and incomplete engine (parts in boxes).
She is light, stiff, and very fast. It's also very unique, with a lot of good stuff developed by the German and French engineers who worked on it.
I believe she is the lightest 964 ever made. Only 890 kg. The second lightest (modern) race 911 I met was 920 kg. 30 kg is a huge gap at this level of lightness. So for sure it's a super car.
But since it's not currently drivable, I wander how much I can ask for her.
I never counted how much I spent on her. More than $60K easily. I know I will lose money, I am good with that, the page needs to be turned (even if it is fu... hard
).
Here a brief description, please let me know what you think of it:
Engine
Basically a 993 cup with the lighter 964 plastic intake, was delivering a conservative 320 hp with a good torque.
I recently bought a crank and rods to turbocharge it:
964 '92 crankcase
993 GT2 crank (~2800 miles)
993 GT2 rods (~2800 miles)
964 3.6 cylinders (20 Kmiles - good for N.A. should be replaced for turbo).
993 RS heads, camshafts, pushers (40K, very good). Heads use longer turbo valve guides for better cooling.
964 cup super lightweight flywheel (motorsport) + bearing, fork, etc. (all new spare parts).
964 RS ECU remapped for this flywheel and 993 camshaft. Doesn't support catalytic converters (would burn).
964 RSR stainless steel track exhaust line w/o cats (brand new).
New bearings, new seals, etc (still in package).
Fully GT2-R engine mounting (factory 'semi-rigid' silent-blocs with reinforced engine mounting plate).
Notes:
Engine had been moved approx. 3 cm to the front like on the factory 964 that ran at Le Mans.
Gearbox bell has been reduced consequently and uses the factory adapter for holding the starter.
I had bad experience with third party rigid silent-bloc so I use the factory semi-rigid ones. They're a little heavier but absorb a lot of vibrations while shifting is still very precise when used with the fully rigid gearbox mount.
Pistons are missing, engine was about to be turbocharged and I hadn't chosen pistons yet.
Valve covers missing, planned to replace with carbon/kevlar ones.
Drive trains
Front
Complete 993 RSR train except the bushing on the lower wish-bow still using the cup joints:
Fully-adjustable Bilsteins from Motorsport 993 RSR (3K miles)
Hyperco coils (3K miles).
993 RSR adjustable camber plates.
20 and 22 mm swaybars - used 22 only on fast tracks, RS 24mm not recommended, but would recommend adjustable 22 mm.
Motorsport 993 RSR hubs with center lock.
993 RSR brake discs
Old 956-style wheel center hats which allows to use Speedline Racing wheels (Porsche Cup with center lock) instead of BBS racing.
Note:
no RSR brake calipers (I never used the RSR discs, used to use 330 mm brakes which are available) I believe the 993 TT calipers fit the RSR hubs.
BBS Racing wheels directly fit the RSR hubs, no need to use the 956-style center hats.
Rear
On the car is currently a regular, non adjustable 964 cup setup with 320 mm brakes, RS/C4 calipers. Regular shafts.
I used to race like this, the car is so light and stiff that performance was above 993 RSR. Right now I have removed the center locks and use the original 5 bolts to hold the rear wheels because the shafts have been removed for gear box maintenance, and centre locks use the main shaft bolt. It takes less than an hour to put it back in center lock setup (10 pins and two center bolts to replace).
However for the turbocharging of the engine I planned to upgrade the rear train to 993 RSR specs and bought the following:
Motorsport 993 RSR hubs with center lock.
993 RSR adjustable Bilsteins.
993 RSR monoball arms (complete set)
993 suspension cage
993 GT2 shafts
Gearbox
The gearbox is a racing 5 speed G50 with an adjustable 20-80% LSD. This is one of the things that make the car so fast:
There's a pushrod with a joint on the side on the G50 (like on the G64) which allows to adjust the LSD from 20% (default) to 80% (pushed full). I will tell the buyer of the car some secrets about this :-) This stuff has been developed by Porsche in the 90s originally for the C4 Leitchbau. Few racers know this hard-to-get stuff. Even fewer have it
Except the LSD, the internals of the G50 are regular gears with wired racing bolts, so no worry you don't buy some exotic stuff that is hard to maintain.
Gearbox uses rigid RSR mounting.
Interior/Chassis
One of three race cars built on 964 by SportDrive in Europe (France):
Chromoly welded cage.
80% of the cockpit is built of pre-peg carbon panels stratified on Nomex honeycomb.
Honey comb glued on the chassis using metacrylate then carbon fiber had been stratified on both honeycomb and chassis using hi-strength epoxy.
The cage around the driver is stratified on the chassis with carbon/epoxy.
Rear of the cockpit (back and lateral panels) replaced with this carbon/Nomex honeycomb.
Front panel (firewall behind fuel tank) is made of honeycomb.
Gain on the cockpit is approx. 140 LBS, resulting in a stiffer chassis even without the roll cage: load offset on 964 cup = 12 mm; this car <4 mm !
Recaro SPG driver seat (new) with Recaro mounting plates for the 964.
Original seat & seatbelt bolting, dashboard and moonroof still in place (some Euro-NGT regulations). This can be easily removed (I would do it for the US, doesn't make sense to keep the moon roof. I can ask a guy to glue some honey comb to fill the moonroof, better solution than to weld a heavy steel sheet).
Crash box in front of the car (two layers of honeycomb + lateral beams).
On front, 38 LBS of metal replaced with 4 LBS of carbon/Nomex also resulting in better stiffness.
Original tank still fits (Euro-NGT regulation) but can be easily replaced.
Miscellaneous
I still have the aircraft switches and breakers that replace the original fuse and relay box. Original engine loom that is still used. Brake cylinder, booster, etc..
Some interior stuff like carpeting (useful in winter or when it's very hot) and center console.
The car comes with the original Momo Porsche steering wheel. It's a bit worn but I would like it to remain in place - it's part of the car's spirit.
And I love her.
I meet some health problems and obviously racing will no longer be for me, so I guess it's time to sale my baby 964
I bought it in Europe in early 2000 as a club car and got it totally transformed in 2002 by SportDrive and RGM, race car builders in France.
Last year it has been dismantled for a third ultimate evolution: conversion to twin turbo, removed glass fiber body panels and windows.
The plan was to use a mono-piece 993 EVO front panel made of carbon (GT-Racing) and use lightweight Lexan windows. I also had rain gutters removed for better aerodynamics (and also so much beautiful). The car is now naked. Just the chassis with four wheels, gearbox and incomplete engine (parts in boxes).
She is light, stiff, and very fast. It's also very unique, with a lot of good stuff developed by the German and French engineers who worked on it.
I believe she is the lightest 964 ever made. Only 890 kg. The second lightest (modern) race 911 I met was 920 kg. 30 kg is a huge gap at this level of lightness. So for sure it's a super car.
But since it's not currently drivable, I wander how much I can ask for her.
I never counted how much I spent on her. More than $60K easily. I know I will lose money, I am good with that, the page needs to be turned (even if it is fu... hard
).Here a brief description, please let me know what you think of it:
Engine
Basically a 993 cup with the lighter 964 plastic intake, was delivering a conservative 320 hp with a good torque.
I recently bought a crank and rods to turbocharge it:
964 '92 crankcase
993 GT2 crank (~2800 miles)
993 GT2 rods (~2800 miles)
964 3.6 cylinders (20 Kmiles - good for N.A. should be replaced for turbo).
993 RS heads, camshafts, pushers (40K, very good). Heads use longer turbo valve guides for better cooling.
964 cup super lightweight flywheel (motorsport) + bearing, fork, etc. (all new spare parts).
964 RS ECU remapped for this flywheel and 993 camshaft. Doesn't support catalytic converters (would burn).
964 RSR stainless steel track exhaust line w/o cats (brand new).
New bearings, new seals, etc (still in package).
Fully GT2-R engine mounting (factory 'semi-rigid' silent-blocs with reinforced engine mounting plate).
Notes:
Engine had been moved approx. 3 cm to the front like on the factory 964 that ran at Le Mans.
Gearbox bell has been reduced consequently and uses the factory adapter for holding the starter.
I had bad experience with third party rigid silent-bloc so I use the factory semi-rigid ones. They're a little heavier but absorb a lot of vibrations while shifting is still very precise when used with the fully rigid gearbox mount.
Pistons are missing, engine was about to be turbocharged and I hadn't chosen pistons yet.
Valve covers missing, planned to replace with carbon/kevlar ones.
Drive trains
Front
Complete 993 RSR train except the bushing on the lower wish-bow still using the cup joints:
Fully-adjustable Bilsteins from Motorsport 993 RSR (3K miles)
Hyperco coils (3K miles).
993 RSR adjustable camber plates.
20 and 22 mm swaybars - used 22 only on fast tracks, RS 24mm not recommended, but would recommend adjustable 22 mm.
Motorsport 993 RSR hubs with center lock.
993 RSR brake discs
Old 956-style wheel center hats which allows to use Speedline Racing wheels (Porsche Cup with center lock) instead of BBS racing.
Note:
no RSR brake calipers (I never used the RSR discs, used to use 330 mm brakes which are available) I believe the 993 TT calipers fit the RSR hubs.
BBS Racing wheels directly fit the RSR hubs, no need to use the 956-style center hats.
Rear
On the car is currently a regular, non adjustable 964 cup setup with 320 mm brakes, RS/C4 calipers. Regular shafts.
I used to race like this, the car is so light and stiff that performance was above 993 RSR. Right now I have removed the center locks and use the original 5 bolts to hold the rear wheels because the shafts have been removed for gear box maintenance, and centre locks use the main shaft bolt. It takes less than an hour to put it back in center lock setup (10 pins and two center bolts to replace).
However for the turbocharging of the engine I planned to upgrade the rear train to 993 RSR specs and bought the following:
Motorsport 993 RSR hubs with center lock.
993 RSR adjustable Bilsteins.
993 RSR monoball arms (complete set)
993 suspension cage
993 GT2 shafts
Gearbox
The gearbox is a racing 5 speed G50 with an adjustable 20-80% LSD. This is one of the things that make the car so fast:
There's a pushrod with a joint on the side on the G50 (like on the G64) which allows to adjust the LSD from 20% (default) to 80% (pushed full). I will tell the buyer of the car some secrets about this :-) This stuff has been developed by Porsche in the 90s originally for the C4 Leitchbau. Few racers know this hard-to-get stuff. Even fewer have it
Except the LSD, the internals of the G50 are regular gears with wired racing bolts, so no worry you don't buy some exotic stuff that is hard to maintain.
Gearbox uses rigid RSR mounting.
Interior/Chassis
One of three race cars built on 964 by SportDrive in Europe (France):
Chromoly welded cage.
80% of the cockpit is built of pre-peg carbon panels stratified on Nomex honeycomb.
Honey comb glued on the chassis using metacrylate then carbon fiber had been stratified on both honeycomb and chassis using hi-strength epoxy.
The cage around the driver is stratified on the chassis with carbon/epoxy.
Rear of the cockpit (back and lateral panels) replaced with this carbon/Nomex honeycomb.
Front panel (firewall behind fuel tank) is made of honeycomb.
Gain on the cockpit is approx. 140 LBS, resulting in a stiffer chassis even without the roll cage: load offset on 964 cup = 12 mm; this car <4 mm !
Recaro SPG driver seat (new) with Recaro mounting plates for the 964.
Original seat & seatbelt bolting, dashboard and moonroof still in place (some Euro-NGT regulations). This can be easily removed (I would do it for the US, doesn't make sense to keep the moon roof. I can ask a guy to glue some honey comb to fill the moonroof, better solution than to weld a heavy steel sheet).
Crash box in front of the car (two layers of honeycomb + lateral beams).
On front, 38 LBS of metal replaced with 4 LBS of carbon/Nomex also resulting in better stiffness.
Original tank still fits (Euro-NGT regulation) but can be easily replaced.
Miscellaneous
I still have the aircraft switches and breakers that replace the original fuse and relay box. Original engine loom that is still used. Brake cylinder, booster, etc..
Some interior stuff like carpeting (useful in winter or when it's very hot) and center console.
The car comes with the original Momo Porsche steering wheel. It's a bit worn but I would like it to remain in place - it's part of the car's spirit.
And I love her.
Last edited by IrocMan; 09-26-2009 at 02:05 AM.
08-28-2009, 02:57 AM
#5
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
Hey thanks for the compassion.
Well my life is definitely not endangered - I simply ****ed my left knee and won't be able to push a clutch pedal nor to brake with left foot for a while, and just to drive daily is atrociously painful; even if I try to hide it, it hurts.
That should be better after some re-education but the docs all said I won't be able to race again, at least for few years and not on GTs which ask too much effort. So I'm thinking of buying a 993 TT tiptro for everyday, and a gokart for the fun. Maybe in few years it's gonna be better - will see.
Life's like that. But I'm really upset. To drive is a big part of my life.
Maybe I could become an instructor, or something. I'm thinking of it.
Or maybe I simply need a good psycho-therapeutist
Man, I'll have to drive a Porsche with automatic transmission - I feel so bad.
Well my life is definitely not endangered - I simply ****ed my left knee and won't be able to push a clutch pedal nor to brake with left foot for a while, and just to drive daily is atrociously painful; even if I try to hide it, it hurts.
That should be better after some re-education but the docs all said I won't be able to race again, at least for few years and not on GTs which ask too much effort. So I'm thinking of buying a 993 TT tiptro for everyday, and a gokart for the fun. Maybe in few years it's gonna be better - will see.
Life's like that. But I'm really upset. To drive is a big part of my life.
Maybe I could become an instructor, or something. I'm thinking of it.
Or maybe I simply need a good psycho-therapeutist
Man, I'll have to drive a Porsche with automatic transmission - I feel so bad.
08-28-2009, 03:31 AM
#6
Burning Brakes
Hey thanks for the compassion.
Well my life is definitely not endangered - I simply ****ed my left knee and won't be able to push a clutch pedal nor to brake with left foot for a while, and just to drive daily is atrociously painful; even if I try to hide it, it hurts.
That should be better after some re-education but the docs all said I won't be able to race again, at least for few years and not on GTs which ask too much effort. So I'm thinking of buying a 993 TT tiptro for everyday, and a gokart for the fun. Maybe in few years it's gonna be better - will see.
Life's like that. But I'm really upset. To drive is a big part of my life.
Maybe I could become an instructor, or something. I'm thinking of it.
Or maybe I simply need a good psycho-therapeutist
Man, I'll have to drive a Porsche with automatic transmission - I feel so bad.
Well my life is definitely not endangered - I simply ****ed my left knee and won't be able to push a clutch pedal nor to brake with left foot for a while, and just to drive daily is atrociously painful; even if I try to hide it, it hurts.
That should be better after some re-education but the docs all said I won't be able to race again, at least for few years and not on GTs which ask too much effort. So I'm thinking of buying a 993 TT tiptro for everyday, and a gokart for the fun. Maybe in few years it's gonna be better - will see.
Life's like that. But I'm really upset. To drive is a big part of my life.
Maybe I could become an instructor, or something. I'm thinking of it.
Or maybe I simply need a good psycho-therapeutist
Man, I'll have to drive a Porsche with automatic transmission - I feel so bad.
With some rehab, yoga, and possibly surgeries I should be able regain 80% of my mobility & strength in a year or so. Take care and hope you'll get better soon. 
09-26-2009, 01:44 AM
#7
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
OK it's been a while and I've been pretty lazy at taking the car out of the garage, remove the dust and take some shots.
Here a first set of pictures.
The interior is totally raw, black paint or carbon visible. Nothing else. I never minded about the finishing. It's a track car so there's always some time where you want to grind, weld, glue... and I like it like that. It's simply clean. The guy who wants a fancy finishing can get it sanded, polished and apply a glossy epoxy varnish; or a lightweight black carpet in the interior.
I'm looking for more pics...
Here a first set of pictures.
The interior is totally raw, black paint or carbon visible. Nothing else. I never minded about the finishing. It's a track car so there's always some time where you want to grind, weld, glue... and I like it like that. It's simply clean. The guy who wants a fancy finishing can get it sanded, polished and apply a glossy epoxy varnish; or a lightweight black carpet in the interior.
I'm looking for more pics...
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09-26-2009, 01:53 AM
#8
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
Suspension now.
993 RSR on the front, 964 cup on the back.
The mono center locks are not installed on the rear; they require the shafts to be in place. They work with both the currently installed 964 hubs, and the 993 RSR rear drive trains I have in a box.
My plan to have a whole 993 RSR chassis with a twin turbo engine (almost everything ready for that).
993 RSR on the front, 964 cup on the back.
The mono center locks are not installed on the rear; they require the shafts to be in place. They work with both the currently installed 964 hubs, and the 993 RSR rear drive trains I have in a box.
My plan to have a whole 993 RSR chassis with a twin turbo engine (almost everything ready for that).
09-26-2009, 02:03 AM
#9
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
Rear gt2 engine double plate and oem semi-rigid aluminum mounts.
The gearbox has GT2 fully rigid mount on the front (not visible on pics).
The gearbox, where you can spot the place for the LSD actuator at the bottom, middle of the picture.
The starter offset plate, since the engine has been moved 3 cm to the front to re-center weight and use the racing clutch and flywheel, the whole bell housing of the gearbox has also been CNC machined of the same offset.
The gearbox has GT2 fully rigid mount on the front (not visible on pics).
The gearbox, where you can spot the place for the LSD actuator at the bottom, middle of the picture.
The starter offset plate, since the engine has been moved 3 cm to the front to re-center weight and use the racing clutch and flywheel, the whole bell housing of the gearbox has also been CNC machined of the same offset.
Last edited by IrocMan; 09-26-2009 at 08:55 PM.
09-26-2009, 02:22 AM
#10
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
So there she is.
Not the state of the art probably, but a very sane base for a good race car with proven results.
It was faster than a GT3 with a 320-330 HP engine, I could follow easily a guy making 1:30 at laguna seca. The car weighs less than 900 kg with windshield, windows, and polyester body which is the key of exceptional performance. Some pros told me that I don't need to upgrade the rear train because of the very light weight - simply make it more rigid than the stock cup setup installed now.
I'm about to put her on sale, and have no idea where to start. I would probably make a package with all the parts.
Do you have an idea about what I should start with? 20K? 30K ?
thanks
-Luc
Not the state of the art probably, but a very sane base for a good race car with proven results.
It was faster than a GT3 with a 320-330 HP engine, I could follow easily a guy making 1:30 at laguna seca. The car weighs less than 900 kg with windshield, windows, and polyester body which is the key of exceptional performance. Some pros told me that I don't need to upgrade the rear train because of the very light weight - simply make it more rigid than the stock cup setup installed now.
I'm about to put her on sale, and have no idea where to start. I would probably make a package with all the parts.
Do you have an idea about what I should start with? 20K? 30K ?
thanks
-Luc
09-26-2009, 10:26 PM
#12
Rennlist Member
Hey - what an interesting car! Sorry to hear about your knee. That sucks for sure.
One way to price it is to consider how much it would cost to have it professionally finished, then consider the value at that point, then take the difference, discounted somewhat, and that is a possible asking price. Someone who doesn't do their own work would need to do that same calculation, and a mechanic interested in it would also want to use a similar model - his 'free' labor would be the discount he'd need to make it worth his while.
A second option would be to figure out how much all the parts are worth and sum that up. Based on the info, I think that would be less than the first model.
Maybe someone else has another philosophy regarding determining a price...
Good Luck!
One way to price it is to consider how much it would cost to have it professionally finished, then consider the value at that point, then take the difference, discounted somewhat, and that is a possible asking price. Someone who doesn't do their own work would need to do that same calculation, and a mechanic interested in it would also want to use a similar model - his 'free' labor would be the discount he'd need to make it worth his while.
A second option would be to figure out how much all the parts are worth and sum that up. Based on the info, I think that would be less than the first model.
Maybe someone else has another philosophy regarding determining a price...
Good Luck!
09-27-2009, 12:12 AM
#13
Three Wheelin'
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: on the waterfront, Kobe, Japan
Posts: 1,434
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like
on
1 Post
Hey thanks for the compassion.
Well my life is definitely not endangered - I simply ****ed my left knee and won't be able to push a clutch pedal nor to brake with left foot for a while, and just to drive daily is atrociously painful; even if I try to hide it, it hurts.
That should be better after some re-education but the docs all said I won't be able to race again, at least for few years and not on GTs which ask too much effort. So I'm thinking of buying a 993 TT tiptro for everyday, and a gokart for the fun. Maybe in few years it's gonna be better - will see.
Life's like that. But I'm really upset. To drive is a big part of my life.
Maybe I could become an instructor, or something. I'm thinking of it.
Or maybe I simply need a good psycho-therapeutist
Man, I'll have to drive a Porsche with automatic transmission - I feel so bad.
Well my life is definitely not endangered - I simply ****ed my left knee and won't be able to push a clutch pedal nor to brake with left foot for a while, and just to drive daily is atrociously painful; even if I try to hide it, it hurts.
That should be better after some re-education but the docs all said I won't be able to race again, at least for few years and not on GTs which ask too much effort. So I'm thinking of buying a 993 TT tiptro for everyday, and a gokart for the fun. Maybe in few years it's gonna be better - will see.
Life's like that. But I'm really upset. To drive is a big part of my life.
Maybe I could become an instructor, or something. I'm thinking of it.
Or maybe I simply need a good psycho-therapeutist
Man, I'll have to drive a Porsche with automatic transmission - I feel so bad.
09-27-2009, 12:15 AM
#14
Three Wheelin'
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: on the waterfront, Kobe, Japan
Posts: 1,434
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like
on
1 Post
Hey thanks for the compassion.
Well my life is definitely not endangered - I simply ****ed my left knee and won't be able to push a clutch pedal nor to brake with left foot for a while, and just to drive daily is atrociously painful; even if I try to hide it, it hurts.
That should be better after some re-education but the docs all said I won't be able to race again, at least for few years and not on GTs which ask too much effort. So I'm thinking of buying a 993 TT tiptro for everyday, and a gokart for the fun. Maybe in few years it's gonna be better - will see.
Life's like that. But I'm really upset. To drive is a big part of my life.
Maybe I could become an instructor, or something. I'm thinking of it.
Or maybe I simply need a good psycho-therapeutist
Man, I'll have to drive a Porsche with automatic transmission - I feel so bad.
Well my life is definitely not endangered - I simply ****ed my left knee and won't be able to push a clutch pedal nor to brake with left foot for a while, and just to drive daily is atrociously painful; even if I try to hide it, it hurts.
That should be better after some re-education but the docs all said I won't be able to race again, at least for few years and not on GTs which ask too much effort. So I'm thinking of buying a 993 TT tiptro for everyday, and a gokart for the fun. Maybe in few years it's gonna be better - will see.
Life's like that. But I'm really upset. To drive is a big part of my life.
Maybe I could become an instructor, or something. I'm thinking of it.
Or maybe I simply need a good psycho-therapeutist
Man, I'll have to drive a Porsche with automatic transmission - I feel so bad.
09-27-2009, 02:20 PM
#15
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
Thanks.
Interesting yes... I should have considered it.
However the idea to invest 10K again and some labor to finish it for selling it doesn't really motivate me.
And as fast as it can be it is 'just' a 964. I know that people in a larger budget would prefer a 993 (a Penske, RSR, or something like that) and I will never sale the car above 40K even complete and running fast for this reason. I already loose a lot of money. I don't plan to put another 10K in it to get the body and glasses on it, spend 3K in engine parts and approx. 50 hours of my time rebuilding it if it's to sale it - then I would keep it even if I won't be albe to drive her before years maybe.
Now, considering the other option, the buyer would have to:
-install body and paint it. I have a quote at 4K for a 3.0 RSR polyester kit.
-A good body worker would prepare and paint it for another 4K (that's in my expensive town, you can get it done for less). However I agree there's some extra work for fitting the front with an extra oil cooler, etc. Add 2K here.
-windows, 1200.
-engine, approx. 3K of parts (pistons + misc. stuff) for an N.A. setup + labor.
The labor on the engine is the expensive part, especially if it's for racing. That's where the guy in mechanic saves a lot. Also buyer has freedom to put whatever he wants (look can be from 3.0R to 993 GT2..) and the engine is a very strong base for any kind of engine setup.
He would have 4+4+1.2+3 = 13K for building a very fast car, which is the price for rebuilding an engine on a 964... Also ask racers how much they spend on there 964 before they can play seriously with other racers. It's far above the range we are talking about now.
I agree I can't sale it 30K in these conditions; that would make the car approx. 45K in the end, which is a bit less than the price of a car with comparable performance (993 RSR) and ready to run. And psychologically people would better buy the 993 of course.
I know I'm gonna lose money, I'm good with that now - I will find a reason
So maybe the plan would be to let it go for 20K with all the engine parts, which is an option for a buyer in mechanic to rebuild a fast 964 for approx 30K; and I resale the 993 parts on the side.
I would leave the engine ECU and the ABS stuff including the unit that electronically drives the rear LSD (the LSD can be mechanically driven, or electronically driven using the C4 actuator). This development cost me 4K.
I would also be happy to give buyer a lot of advices (I have 8 championships and 3 national titles) to rebuild the car intelligently and take benefits of few special things that have been developed on it.
Or... another option could also be:
Sale the naked car for 12K (there's for 8K just of composite panels). An intelligent guy can finish the car for less than 10K added to that.
Keep in mind that it's approx. 900 kg with the glass windshield and some polyester panels. I should have kept it like that maybe but I wanted something even more extreme.
I should never had re-dismantled this car... but who could know I would have to give-up one day? I don't want to spend more money on it, and I plan to buy a 360F1 as a therapy so I want the car to go. I can rebuild the lower engine to help.
I'm open to almost everything, except to give it
cheers
Interesting yes... I should have considered it.
However the idea to invest 10K again and some labor to finish it for selling it doesn't really motivate me.
And as fast as it can be it is 'just' a 964. I know that people in a larger budget would prefer a 993 (a Penske, RSR, or something like that) and I will never sale the car above 40K even complete and running fast for this reason. I already loose a lot of money. I don't plan to put another 10K in it to get the body and glasses on it, spend 3K in engine parts and approx. 50 hours of my time rebuilding it if it's to sale it - then I would keep it even if I won't be albe to drive her before years maybe.
Now, considering the other option, the buyer would have to:
-install body and paint it. I have a quote at 4K for a 3.0 RSR polyester kit.
-A good body worker would prepare and paint it for another 4K (that's in my expensive town, you can get it done for less). However I agree there's some extra work for fitting the front with an extra oil cooler, etc. Add 2K here.
-windows, 1200.
-engine, approx. 3K of parts (pistons + misc. stuff) for an N.A. setup + labor.
The labor on the engine is the expensive part, especially if it's for racing. That's where the guy in mechanic saves a lot. Also buyer has freedom to put whatever he wants (look can be from 3.0R to 993 GT2..) and the engine is a very strong base for any kind of engine setup.
He would have 4+4+1.2+3 = 13K for building a very fast car, which is the price for rebuilding an engine on a 964... Also ask racers how much they spend on there 964 before they can play seriously with other racers. It's far above the range we are talking about now.
I agree I can't sale it 30K in these conditions; that would make the car approx. 45K in the end, which is a bit less than the price of a car with comparable performance (993 RSR) and ready to run. And psychologically people would better buy the 993 of course.
I know I'm gonna lose money, I'm good with that now - I will find a reason
So maybe the plan would be to let it go for 20K with all the engine parts, which is an option for a buyer in mechanic to rebuild a fast 964 for approx 30K; and I resale the 993 parts on the side.
I would leave the engine ECU and the ABS stuff including the unit that electronically drives the rear LSD (the LSD can be mechanically driven, or electronically driven using the C4 actuator). This development cost me 4K.
I would also be happy to give buyer a lot of advices (I have 8 championships and 3 national titles) to rebuild the car intelligently and take benefits of few special things that have been developed on it.
Or... another option could also be:
Sale the naked car for 12K (there's for 8K just of composite panels). An intelligent guy can finish the car for less than 10K added to that.
Keep in mind that it's approx. 900 kg with the glass windshield and some polyester panels. I should have kept it like that maybe but I wanted something even more extreme.
I should never had re-dismantled this car... but who could know I would have to give-up one day? I don't want to spend more money on it, and I plan to buy a 360F1 as a therapy so I want the car to go. I can rebuild the lower engine to help.
I'm open to almost everything, except to give it
cheers