RS 197

A must have indeed and the trip to Europe is a chance of a life time...

But what is your GT3 worth 3 years later....Less every day...

That is the entire point to this car. A blast to drive, some would say more fun than a GT3, and when you are done with it, it should be worth as much or more. Not cost you $10K a year...Apples to Oranges to A GT3.

pu911rsr

I think you are making an apples to oranges comparison. The street CC weighed 2750 lbs but my re-reconverted cup in race trim weighed 2531 according to Andial spec sheets. I race with Euro Cups, I can't tell any difference, it's my understanding the US cups in race trim were almost identical to the Euro versions.
Phil

porschemeister

correct, I used to race aUS 964 Cup Car in 1993 in the Supercar Championship and we were a little above 2500 lbs with rollcage and fuelcell (empty).

Raced against Euro Cup cars the following year in the invitational GT class at Daytona and we were faster than most Euro Cups.

blake

I am in this camp as well. My Speedster is worth MORE today than it was when I bought it 9 years ago. My cost of ownership is next to nothing, but my PRIDE of ownership is very, very high...

(I am with Pete on the "GT3 delivery in Europe" plan though. That is bucket list stuff that is PRICELESS.)

-B

Cupcar#12

so to recap - 150K is aggressive, somewhere south of there but north of $90K is private party market currently for any USA Cup. there does not seem to be much delta between the street/stock spec and Race spec (only the interested parties for different reasons)

500-1000 mileage cars are a different market and priced higher, relitive to market (2 that i know of maybe more, since the owners are a relitively secretive bunch).

18k miles does not count in the 500-1K mileage category.

This car #586 is a "port" car i have the orignal data on it as well.

Btw - the Plaque is present and different than the Andial cars, plus the car looks correct from what i can see as well as orignal and unmolested.

Nice car.

my 2 cents - YMMV

clubrcr

I agree that 500 and 1000 mile cars might go at a premium, I also agree that the one at $150K is foolish. I saw Sloan had one and wanted $175K.

I think the reality is what the market will pay. I know with both of mine, I had a number that I wanted to sell them for and the market didn't agree. I think anyone can throw out what they think a car is worth, but until you start talking to a buyer, it's all hearsay.

A while back, I had a chance to buy a '94 3.6 Turbo "S". The car had low miles and the seller wanted north of $100 and the car was sold in the $80s. If you look at Sloan's website, he is asking double that. I could have doubled my money in a day.

I agree the US Cup is one special low procuction car. I also agree that each car has its own story. I disagree that the prices have gone up 40% to 50% in the last 3 years, or basically since I sold mine.

Has anyone seen anyone news on the economy? Did you watch the Barrett-Jackson auction this past January? Come on guys, is this the new Real Estate market?

Just my opinion.

bauerjab

The car for sale in the original post has not been converted by Andial. So it's portly. Furthermore, it's my understanding from reading multiple sources as well as driving one, that of the 29 cars that were converted by Andial, when the U.S. series fell apart, all were converted back to street specs by Andial (and thus put back to portly status) and then sold as street legal.

Some posters have talked about their converted cups. I would agree that you can put the car on an "Andial conversion diet" and get it down to approximately 2500 lbs. But this is not the configuration that Andial sold the car in. Am I missing something?

pu911rsr

Here is how the party went
1.45 US Carrera Cups were imported into US, these were basically 964 RS with full US safety equipment installed.
2.25 of these were converted by US Porsche motorsports (Andial) into to full race trim. $$$ never materialized to run race series and cars were reconverted back into street trim and sold at US dealships for a $13, 740.00 surcharge over a base Carrera 2 coupe. I don't know how equal in specification the Reconverted Andial spec cars were to the unconverted cars. Sounds like some of the cars had some racy bits left installed.
3. Some of these were sent back to Andial for a re-re conversation back to race trim for about $20K. Mine had a set of 962 titianium valve spring retainers installed at the same time, don't know if this was comman or not. Most of these re-reconverted race cars were run in a IMSA series, don't know how sucessful they were.
Phil

clubrcr

Does anyone have the number or even an estimate of cars that were re-coverted to by Andial to race in a professional series.? I know I have seen cars for sale that were converted to full race specs for the IMSA series, as well as cars that people have converted themselves for the club series. I was just curious how many original cups are still around that haven't been raced, abused or previous wrecked and put back together.

Ritter v4.0

I don't know that much about these cars; but is that why this car has no cage? meaning it did but was converted, or reconverted back to street form and it was removed?

clubrcr

Yes, to get them street legal they had to remove the cages and add all the DOT approved items back to the car.

The story goes like this....Porsche didn't want to try to get an exception from DOT on these cars when they were imported to the USA. Apparently that would have been a hassle. They decided to put 45 cars together and import them to the USA as DOT approved cars. Once the cars were in the USA, then Andial would take off the DOT approved items, i.e. bumper shocks, airbags, safety glass, steel beams in doors, etc. and put them into full race trim. Andial had started doing this on several cars and had to stop when the sponsorship deal fell apart.

Dr Strangelove

In addition to what Jim said, you can also refer to the magazine articles available on the registry site www.carreracupusa.org

The Autoweek (June 8, 1992) and the Excellence (February 1993) articles provide a nice background on the cars. The Excellence article from 1993 is especially good because it has a photo of the cars lined up being converted (my car could be one of the ones in the picture, I suppose) and a picture of one of the engine seals. The cancellation of the race series was not Porsche's finest hour, and the articles are not terribly complimentary, in my opinion. But the retrospective article from Excellence (February 2004) has many good things to say about the cars.

BTW, my car (which is #10) is quite similar to the car that was the original subject of this thread...about 30k miles.

-Bruce

Cupcar#12

#586 was a PORT car - never converted by Andial, never even shipped to Andial.

Jim - i know of 4 Cars that were converted to IMSA specs by Andial and others (Rohr's other one for instance, G&W did one, Andial 2 i believe), the number of cars converted to Run in PCA type events is unknown but Andial did a few of these as well over the years. many more were converted by various shops around the country.

unraced unmolested car #'s are unknown at this point but believed to be about 5-60% of the cars. these #'s are unconfirmed

competition

RPM has one advertised for sale too.

bauerjab

who is "RPM"