DaveConn

Blue,

What started out as a personal goal (admittedly arbitrary) of reducing my car's weight by 5% (from box-stock) has definitely turned into an obsession.

Before gutting the interior, I had:

- removed front bumper beam
- removed all extraneous items from front trunk (except spare)
- installed RS door panels
- removed rear seats
- removed all stereo equipment, speakers, etc.
- removed air bags, etc.
- replaced lower dash with pre-'90 knee pads
- replaced seats with Recaro Pole Positions
- removed cat. and secondary muffler
- replaced rear bumper cover and beam with euro-RS version

There may be a couple of minor things I'm not remembering at the moment, but the above took me from just over 3100 lbs. to 2930 lbs. (both weights with fluids, but without driver). Since then I gutted the carpet, sound deadening, etc., and I'm guessing that was about 60-70 lbs. additional weight savings.

This winter's project (already underway) has been to chop the roof and replace with OEM non-sunroof skin, replace front and rear lids with CF pieces, and pull some additional weight out of the rear of the car (rear beam, metal shielding, etc.). What can I say, it's a damn slippery slope!

My car spends almost all of its time on track or back-country roads. I probably would not be so aggressive with weight savings for a car used daily or frequently in traffic. Buy I will say it's been a fun ride so far, and I'll be interested to see where we end up!

Best regards,

Dave

cobalt

In stock form a turbo weighs in at roughly 200 pounds more than a stock C2 so at 5 hp for each 100 pounds lost you would only need to be at 310hp in a C2 to be comparable in hp to a 3.3l turbo.

For comparison. My C2 with GT3 seats, 100 cell cat, replaced secondary and primary muffler with a 6 pound magnaflow and roll bar weighs in at 3000 pounds my turbo with Recaro Sportster CS seats, B&B headers, magnaflow muffler weighs in at 3100 pounds. The exhaust change on the turbo dropped more weight than that of the C2.

BlueHeeler

That is pretty intensive. You make a good point, adding power only increases acceleration.

Reducing extra weight increases every aspect of performance.

Tom W

Hopefully Colin can chime in for what's included in the 9M MoTeC conversion. Our race class requires the stock induction system. What we've seen is that if you keep stock pistons and cam, the max you can get is about 300 hp at the crank (about 275 rwhp). If you change pistons and cams, you can get to about 310 at the crank. The hp is limited by the amount of air you can get into the engine with the stock intake (we also limit header size to limit the exit airflow too).

The original poster asked about getting 325 rwhp with no engine work. I believe that is impossible. If hp is that important, it's easier and cheaper to buy a 993 or turbo.

BlueHeeler

[QUOTE=Tom W;6267032]Hopefully Colin can chime in for what's included in the 9M MoTeC conversion. Our race class requires the stock induction system. What we've seen is that if you keep stock pistons and cam, the max you can get is about 300 hp at the crank (about 275 rwhp). If you change pistons and cams, you can get to about 310 at the crank. The hp is limited by the amount of air you can get into the engine with the stock intake (we also limit header size to limit the exit airflow too).
QUOTE]

On a healthy motor, what are the typical mods to get to 275whp or 300@ the crank?

Sire

Look for Vitesse Racing package. mine has 293 HP

demonfish

Hi Jamie...

I spoke to Wayne after talking to you at Donny last year, and the guy your on about too, waynes reply - i'm sure he wont mind:

"He wanted something better than a dyno remap on his 964 but wanted to keep the refinement of an OEM ECU rather than fit a MoTeC or DTA etc. 964s suffer with idle quality, particularly when they have a light flywheel like the RS does, and the 993 has much better idle control strategies than the 964 or any of the 'motorsport' type ECUs.

The whole thing worked very well indeed, better than I had expected to be honest.

The hard work part of doing the conversion was sourcing the parts. I had expected that it would be quite easy since I have good contacts with Porsche-Apart, Douglas-Valley, Prestige Salvage, 9m etc (most of them are customers) but it seems that 993 engines are often sold as 'complete' units with ECU and everything for 3.2 Carrera conversions etc and don't often get broken for individual parts.

I didn't actually price up what it would have cost using all new parts but I would expect it would be towards £3000, which is similar to the cost a motorsport system, but then, the overall result was better if I'm honest."

Seems as very knowledgeable guy...

964Black

What about this one?
http://cartronic-motorsport.de/e/porsche_964_lm220.html

This kit is quite popular in Germany. Anybody here experience with it?

DaveConn

Blue,

In my case, FWIW, I am running a SLIGHTLY more agressive cam (a la 993 RS, IIRC), MAF with piggyback, larger injectors, re-mapped DME, and stock exhaust with cat. bypass and g-pipe; hits right at 300 bhp on an engine dyno. With headers and a little DME work I'd bet you could see a little more.

Keep in mind my motor was completely re-built two years ago, and fully balanced, etc., but I would suspect any strong, tight motor could produce about the same.

Regards,

Dave

cobalt

Looks nice but it seems awfully pricey for the hp gain.

My car has just minor exhaust work a cup airbox and otherwise is bone stock and I am seeing nearly the same increase. With a 15% drive train loss the dyno which has proven to be accurate by testing another car of mine with known numbers the same day prior to this car is at 291 hp and 280 tq.

Total expense for exhaust work was less than $1000. The car came with the cup airbox and LWF but otherwise how much extra would that cost.

tony.t

I've kindly been given a few passenger laps in the "chipwizards RS" above and can vouch for it's drivability and it's certainly a strong engine. If it's making anything over 300hp ( and my guess it is ) then it's agood package and good value. Jamie is probably better placed to compare it to the Motec conversion.

I ran a MAF conversion on my C2 for 7 yrs or so which proved reliable and gave 300hp or so. I 've come across a few other 964s with the same kit and they all made the same 300hp regardless of whether they were RS or standard 964. My C2 had the aluminium manifold albeit with an enlarged throttle body

As Colin says above I'm still using the aluminium intake with Motec with seemingly no detriment in lost hp.I opted for Motec because it was what the tuner ( 9M ) was familiar with and I'd experienced a number of other Motec cars he'd done and regardless of the Bosch/Motec arguments the performance on track in direct comparison with chipped RSs and my MAF C2 convinced me they are making more hp.

BlueHeeler

Thanks.
Is the MAF with piggyback the Vitesse kit?

Low 964

tony what hp you getting from the motec?

Tom W

I can't answer that directly, all the engines that I know of for our class were purpose built so there were many changes (except as I said, the stock intake and specified header size). My car kept the stock pistons but I believe had a "mild" cam change from stock and was switched to MoTeC. Since then other engines have been built that use the 1995 993 motronic ECU and a chip change to get the same result. My engine was built with stronger internal components to allow it to rev to 8k in case of a missed shift (normal shifting is still at 6500 rpm). My engine now has about 100 hours on it and is being removed and refurbished.

Scotty964cab

Supercharge!!!!!!!!!! bolt on ...........bolt off 100hp.