Engine Rebuild time!
#1
Engine Rebuild time!
With 293,000 kms on my 91 C2, I will be replacing the clutch and rebuilding the engine.
I've ordered Streathers 964 and Bentleys 964 manuals from Chapters arriving this week and made arrangements with my mechanic to start the engine rebuild this week.
He will allow me to document the whole process and i'll take a few days off to take pictures and try to explain step by step. I'm not much of a diy but i'll try my best. There have been some very good threads on Rennlist already. Is there anything specific that i can take pictures of for your viewing pleasure?
He is not a porsche specialist but spent 6 years rebuilding motors in Russia and has fixed a number of nagging little problems in the past year already.
I have gotten the credit card warmed up (who doesn't know theirs by heart?) and am planning the following:
Replace:
this is mainly the vertex auto rebuild kit:
Rod Bearing set
cylinder head gaskets
valve cover gaskets
valves - intake and exhaust
valve springs
timing cover gaskets
piston ring set
flywheel bolts
connecting rod/ nuts
timing chain
valve guides - intake and exhaust
Chain rails, left, right curved
Clutch kit
rear main seal
These parts i'm not sure until we open it up.
main bearings
flywheel pilot bearing
oil lines, seals, washers
oil return tubes
intermediate shaft bearing kit
transmission gasket set
fuel injectors and seals
timing chain tensioner
nose bearing #8
valve stem seals
front crankshaft seal
camshaft oil seal
through bolt o-rings
piston pin / connecting rod bearing
Here's where i could use some help....
Are there any items in my list #1 that do not have to be replaced?
Are there any items in my list #2 that are missing or are unnecessary?
Are any of these items duplicates with different names? ie: does the Rear Main Seal come with the Transmission gasket set?
Machine work: what needs to be done? Any idea how much this should cost?
Heads
valves
cylinder block
Typical # of hours that shops charge for rebuild?
I welcome your comments.
I've ordered Streathers 964 and Bentleys 964 manuals from Chapters arriving this week and made arrangements with my mechanic to start the engine rebuild this week.
He will allow me to document the whole process and i'll take a few days off to take pictures and try to explain step by step. I'm not much of a diy but i'll try my best. There have been some very good threads on Rennlist already. Is there anything specific that i can take pictures of for your viewing pleasure?
He is not a porsche specialist but spent 6 years rebuilding motors in Russia and has fixed a number of nagging little problems in the past year already.
I have gotten the credit card warmed up (who doesn't know theirs by heart?) and am planning the following:
Replace:
this is mainly the vertex auto rebuild kit:
Rod Bearing set
cylinder head gaskets
valve cover gaskets
valves - intake and exhaust
valve springs
timing cover gaskets
piston ring set
flywheel bolts
connecting rod/ nuts
timing chain
valve guides - intake and exhaust
Chain rails, left, right curved
Clutch kit
rear main seal
These parts i'm not sure until we open it up.
main bearings
flywheel pilot bearing
oil lines, seals, washers
oil return tubes
intermediate shaft bearing kit
transmission gasket set
fuel injectors and seals
timing chain tensioner
nose bearing #8
valve stem seals
front crankshaft seal
camshaft oil seal
through bolt o-rings
piston pin / connecting rod bearing
Here's where i could use some help....
Are there any items in my list #1 that do not have to be replaced?
Are there any items in my list #2 that are missing or are unnecessary?
Are any of these items duplicates with different names? ie: does the Rear Main Seal come with the Transmission gasket set?
Machine work: what needs to be done? Any idea how much this should cost?
Heads
valves
cylinder block
Typical # of hours that shops charge for rebuild?
I welcome your comments.
#3
Look for the threads here where a number of us documented our rebuilds. You may want to strengthen the engine carrier, and replace the rear engine mounts.
#4
Yep definitely will pick up Dempsey's book. Just read Kirk's rebuild again and will check out axl's rebuild. Thanks. Head is spinning from reading Kirk's. Then i clicked onto the Supercharger install ....
Rear engine mounts - i'll check them out.
Strengthen engine carrier: what's that?
Rear engine mounts - i'll check them out.
Strengthen engine carrier: what's that?
#5
engine rebuild
find the correct machine shop that is familiar Porsche parts. very recently there was a guy on here that had his heads milled and the were not square
the machining is very important, especailly the head work.
i would think you need a new oil pump too.
the machining is very important, especailly the head work.
i would think you need a new oil pump too.
#6
Regardless of who builds it, spend the money on some very basic reliability upgrades such as ARP rod bolts, titanium valve spring retainers, and stiffer valve springs. You may want to consider Smart Racing (Jerry Woods) rod bearings also. But I'm no expert. There are several very knowledgable folks who were very helpful to me on this forum that can offer better advice. But if you are spending the money to do the engine, you would be wise to ensure that the guy building it really knows what he's doing and spend a little more to make it more robust than it was before.
Good Luck!
Trending Topics
#8
Just stripped my engine - it had 170k miles and low oil pressure at hot idle. Im not a techie (being rebuilt by well known independent) but as a guide:
The crank needed work grinding I think .25. The bottom end bearings were worn and will be replaced along with all others.
Laser measure checked the pistons and cylinders for any wear. Mine were fine but if they were not, was seriously considering a 3.8 "Upgrade"
You might want to consider a new oil pump given the miles and if you had low pressure on idle.
Camshafts will probably be pitted and will need re-grinding/polishing.
I'm having the injectors sonically cleaned and seals replaced and tested. Will only replace if necessary.
Valves will again be cleaned, checked for damage and reground/ replaced. May re-use springs but will be checked.
Cylinders/heads? will be re-cut to allow post 1991 gasket to be installed. You may already have these.
These engines work to tight tolerances. You should ensure your rebuilder knows what the safe tolerances are.
I think a top end rebuild comes in at about 40 hours but I am doing it on a fixed sum. My guys do lots of these so know how long it takes.
If you are photographing, why not get some comparison pictures of the "worn bits" and the new. There doesn't seem to be much on Rennlist of this. If I had known what to expect at certain mileage, I would probably have done the rebuild sooner and at least have had a better idea of potential cost.
I am sure there will be some others along soon with more good advice.
The crank needed work grinding I think .25. The bottom end bearings were worn and will be replaced along with all others.
Laser measure checked the pistons and cylinders for any wear. Mine were fine but if they were not, was seriously considering a 3.8 "Upgrade"
You might want to consider a new oil pump given the miles and if you had low pressure on idle.
Camshafts will probably be pitted and will need re-grinding/polishing.
I'm having the injectors sonically cleaned and seals replaced and tested. Will only replace if necessary.
Valves will again be cleaned, checked for damage and reground/ replaced. May re-use springs but will be checked.
Cylinders/heads? will be re-cut to allow post 1991 gasket to be installed. You may already have these.
These engines work to tight tolerances. You should ensure your rebuilder knows what the safe tolerances are.
I think a top end rebuild comes in at about 40 hours but I am doing it on a fixed sum. My guys do lots of these so know how long it takes.
If you are photographing, why not get some comparison pictures of the "worn bits" and the new. There doesn't seem to be much on Rennlist of this. If I had known what to expect at certain mileage, I would probably have done the rebuild sooner and at least have had a better idea of potential cost.
I am sure there will be some others along soon with more good advice.
#9
Yep definitely will pick up Dempsey's book. Just read Kirk's rebuild again and will check out axl's rebuild. Thanks. Head is spinning from reading Kirk's. Then i clicked onto the Supercharger install ....
Rear engine mounts - i'll check them out.
Strengthen engine carrier: what's that?
Rear engine mounts - i'll check them out.
Strengthen engine carrier: what's that?
#10
Professor of Pending Projects
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 9,891
Likes: 23
From: Orlando, FL
You might want to PM Geoffrey... in one of his recent threads I asked about what to change/improve during a rebuild for the street... here is what I got:
For the steet I'd simply blueprint the engine using stock parts with the exception of valves, valve guides, valve springs, and valve spring retainers which I'd get aftermarket ones. Also use aftermarket racing rod bearings. And ARP bolts.
For the steet I'd simply blueprint the engine using stock parts with the exception of valves, valve guides, valve springs, and valve spring retainers which I'd get aftermarket ones. Also use aftermarket racing rod bearings. And ARP bolts.
#11
You might want to PM Geoffrey... in one of his recent threads I asked about what to change/improve during a rebuild for the street... here is what I got:
For the steet I'd simply blueprint the engine using stock parts with the exception of valves, valve guides, valve springs, and valve spring retainers which I'd get aftermarket ones. Also use aftermarket racing rod bearings. And ARP bolts.
For the steet I'd simply blueprint the engine using stock parts with the exception of valves, valve guides, valve springs, and valve spring retainers which I'd get aftermarket ones. Also use aftermarket racing rod bearings. And ARP bolts.
#12
These parts i'm not sure until we open it up.
main bearings
flywheel pilot bearing
oil lines, seals, washers
oil return tubes
intermediate shaft bearing kit
transmission gasket set
fuel injectors and seals
timing chain tensioner
nose bearing #8valve stem seals
front crankshaft seal
camshaft oil seal
through bolt o-rings
piston pin / connecting rod bearing
main bearings
flywheel pilot bearing
oil lines, seals, washers
oil return tubes
intermediate shaft bearing kit
transmission gasket set
fuel injectors and seals
timing chain tensioner
nose bearing #8valve stem seals
front crankshaft seal
camshaft oil seal
through bolt o-rings
piston pin / connecting rod bearing
As far as machine work goes; I am in the process of completing a 3.2 overhaul, and I sent the cylinder heads to anchor atlantic in New Jersey. The workmanship was TOP NOTCH, and I can honestly say the heads look nicer than the brand new cylinders I sat them on. You should also remind your mechanic that Porsche cylinders are not your run of the mill parts. I believe all 964's have Nickasil cylinders (someone please correct me if this is not true), which means there is a very thin sepcial coating on the bore. You must not machine through this coating, or you will have new problems and will have to replace or send out the jugs. I am not an expert on Nickasil, as I have never dealt with them before. You should do some research on re-ringing these engines, as it will pay dividends to know at least as much or more than your mechanic in this area. If for some reason your cylinders are Alusil (like I said, I doubt this), you will have very little luck finding someone who is capable of preparing them for new rings.
Good luck with your project!
#13
Great advice fellows. I am going to have to print out this thread and work through the list.
Not sure what 'blueprint' the engine means.
Now considering a porsche specialist rebuilder although my mechanic has rebuilt 3.4 litre 996 and 3.2 litre 911 motors.
Pistons and cylinders - need to be replaced? What dies on these two parts.
I will be in touch with Darth who is also rebuilding his motor locally so we'll compare notes.
For machine work, i will definitely send them out to someone very knowledgeable on Porsche.
Sundog, for the engine carrier bolts, can you suggest a good manufacturer / supplier.
I'll do the best i can to take pictures of before and after machining / blasting etc.
Not sure what 'blueprint' the engine means.
Now considering a porsche specialist rebuilder although my mechanic has rebuilt 3.4 litre 996 and 3.2 litre 911 motors.
Pistons and cylinders - need to be replaced? What dies on these two parts.
I will be in touch with Darth who is also rebuilding his motor locally so we'll compare notes.
For machine work, i will definitely send them out to someone very knowledgeable on Porsche.
Sundog, for the engine carrier bolts, can you suggest a good manufacturer / supplier.
I'll do the best i can to take pictures of before and after machining / blasting etc.
#14
Okay, the story begins:
Back from the mechanic's shop today.
Engine and Tranny have been removed and split.
Transmission has leaks in 2 places. Will replace seals.
Engine tray has lots of rusty / non existent tin and several places where oil is seeping and has attracted lots of chunky dirt
Clutch looks old and will be replaced with Vertex Performance Friction kit.
Engine Mounts look okay... no leaks even though i recently jacked up the car to do the rear brakes by taking the advice of p-car's jack under the motor trick. Then went on to read that this is a very good way of busting them and having to replace them with the OEM $500.00 parts....
Will remove intakes and fan related parts and prepare for machine work.
Can anyone recommend a good shop in Toronto specializing in Porsche? I am familiar with the local specialists: GTek, Bestline, Mantis, Hunter and Pfaff. All expensive but as all my friends say, 'what dya expect? It's a Porsche'
smokin' TR6 - i will replace all the stuff highlighted in Red... 'while you are there'....
I'll upload some pictures as soon as i figure how to...
Back from the mechanic's shop today.
Engine and Tranny have been removed and split.
Transmission has leaks in 2 places. Will replace seals.
Engine tray has lots of rusty / non existent tin and several places where oil is seeping and has attracted lots of chunky dirt
Clutch looks old and will be replaced with Vertex Performance Friction kit.
Engine Mounts look okay... no leaks even though i recently jacked up the car to do the rear brakes by taking the advice of p-car's jack under the motor trick. Then went on to read that this is a very good way of busting them and having to replace them with the OEM $500.00 parts....
Will remove intakes and fan related parts and prepare for machine work.
Can anyone recommend a good shop in Toronto specializing in Porsche? I am familiar with the local specialists: GTek, Bestline, Mantis, Hunter and Pfaff. All expensive but as all my friends say, 'what dya expect? It's a Porsche'
smokin' TR6 - i will replace all the stuff highlighted in Red... 'while you are there'....
I'll upload some pictures as soon as i figure how to...
#15
Alex
Bronko's was recommended by a local Pelcanite.
http://www.bronkos.com/
If you need to do any crankshaft or camshaft work Canadian chrome
Hope this helps
Bill
Bronko's was recommended by a local Pelcanite.
http://www.bronkos.com/
If you need to do any crankshaft or camshaft work Canadian chrome
Hope this helps
Bill