What advice would you give a new 964 owner?
10-14-2008, 01:13 PM
#1
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What advice would you give a new 964 owner?
I am about to close on a 1991 C4 manual coupe with 75K miles. It has been a daily driver for the first 17 years of its life and has been dutifully cared for by its previous owner. Any issues that came up were cared for and the various service intervals have been addressed. I am buying (hopefully!) a car with no issues, but it is a 17 year old car...as far as issues, its a matter of when, not if. I am prepared for that.
I intend to use the car as a daily driver, so I am interested in reliability (to the extent that is possible, I understand I am not buying new Toyota).
As I take the helm of this car what advice would you give a new 964 owner? What should I make sure has been done, what should I do regardless of whether it needs it or not? What can I expect as far as annual service costs?
I know this is an open-ended question with lots of variables, but for you guys who have been driving 964's for years, what advice would you give a new owner?
Thanks!
I intend to use the car as a daily driver, so I am interested in reliability (to the extent that is possible, I understand I am not buying new Toyota).
As I take the helm of this car what advice would you give a new 964 owner? What should I make sure has been done, what should I do regardless of whether it needs it or not? What can I expect as far as annual service costs?
I know this is an open-ended question with lots of variables, but for you guys who have been driving 964's for years, what advice would you give a new owner?
Thanks!
10-14-2008, 01:26 PM
#2
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Check to see when a valve adjustment was last done. Service interval on valve adjustment is 15K miles. Also check to see when oil change was last done. Don't skimp on oil changes. The cost of bearing failure isn't worth it.
Concensus seems to be that you need to budget about $2K per year for "normal" maintenance and repairs. Unless you do the work yourself. But you'll hear feedback of people that don't spend that much and others who have spent many times that (myself included).
Concensus seems to be that you need to budget about $2K per year for "normal" maintenance and repairs. Unless you do the work yourself. But you'll hear feedback of people that don't spend that much and others who have spent many times that (myself included).
10-14-2008, 01:29 PM
#3
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Congratulations on the new purchase. You will find that 964's are very reliable and make great daily drivers. The annual service cost depends on how you drive the car (street vs DE) and how much work you are willing/able to do yourself. My tires (Michelin Pilot Sports) last approx 15K miles on the rear and 25-30K on the fronts with the stock alignment.
15K mile service by dealer is approx $1,200
30K mile service is $1,800
Oil change by dealer is $200 (with Mobil 1)
If you do these things yourself, you can save significantly and get to learn more about your car.
By the way, its tradition for new members to post photos of their cars.
15K mile service by dealer is approx $1,200
30K mile service is $1,800
Oil change by dealer is $200 (with Mobil 1)
If you do these things yourself, you can save significantly and get to learn more about your car.
By the way, its tradition for new members to post photos of their cars.
10-14-2008, 01:30 PM
#4
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Addition - +1 on keeping up with your maintenance. Don't neglect things. The cars are very reliable when taken care of. If you don't the parts and repair labor can get pricey.
10-14-2008, 01:36 PM
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By the way, I've been fooling with machines most of my life, what is the best DIY porsche maintenance book? Also, what are some items I should DEFINITELY leave to the pros?
10-14-2008, 02:16 PM
#7
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I have several repair manuals. There is some overlap but I have found its best to have a combination of books. I recommend the following
* Factory repair manual
* Porsche 964 - Enthusiast Companion - http://www.bentleypublishers.com/product.htm?code=gp64
* 964 Technical Data - http://www.bentleypublishers.com/product.htm?code=PC94
EDIT - Of course a paid membership to Rennlist. :-)
As for what should be left for the pros? It depends on your skill level and available tools. Personally, I am comfortable doing suspension and engine work but leave any internal transmission work for the pros. I also let the pros do air conditioning evacuation/charging. I don't anticipate doing either enough to justify the cost of the tools to do it right.
* Factory repair manual
* Porsche 964 - Enthusiast Companion - http://www.bentleypublishers.com/product.htm?code=gp64
* 964 Technical Data - http://www.bentleypublishers.com/product.htm?code=PC94
EDIT - Of course a paid membership to Rennlist. :-)
As for what should be left for the pros? It depends on your skill level and available tools. Personally, I am comfortable doing suspension and engine work but leave any internal transmission work for the pros. I also let the pros do air conditioning evacuation/charging. I don't anticipate doing either enough to justify the cost of the tools to do it right.
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10-14-2008, 02:48 PM
#8
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I am about to close on a 1991 C4 manual coupe with 75K miles. It has been a daily driver for the first 17 years of its life and has been dutifully cared for by its previous owner. Any issues that came up were cared for and the various service intervals have been addressed. I am buying (hopefully!) a car with no issues, but it is a 17 year old car...as far as issues, its a matter of when, not if. I am prepared for that.
I intend to use the car as a daily driver, so I am interested in reliability (to the extent that is possible, I understand I am not buying new Toyota).
As I take the helm of this car what advice would you give a new 964 owner? What should I make sure has been done, what should I do regardless of whether it needs it or not? What can I expect as far as annual service costs?
I know this is an open-ended question with lots of variables, but for you guys who have been driving 964's for years, what advice would you give a new owner?
Thanks!
I intend to use the car as a daily driver, so I am interested in reliability (to the extent that is possible, I understand I am not buying new Toyota).
As I take the helm of this car what advice would you give a new 964 owner? What should I make sure has been done, what should I do regardless of whether it needs it or not? What can I expect as far as annual service costs?
I know this is an open-ended question with lots of variables, but for you guys who have been driving 964's for years, what advice would you give a new owner?
Thanks!
10-14-2008, 05:36 PM
#10
I've owned my '91 C2 cab for 8 years and 50k+ miles of regular use (mostly weekends and nice days to the office but daily driver service for some periods).
It has been extremely reliable, never leaving me stranded or not starting in the morning (other than some dead batteries due to a low level drain that I haven't been able to figure out and non-use for some extended periods in the winter).
I don't do any of my own work, since I don't have the tools and (quite frankly) the skill. The $2k/year average maintenance expenses has proven to be pretty accurate, but it's been much more "lumpy", with <$1k/year for oil changes and minor stuff in some years but $4-5k in some years for valve adjustments and significant repairs that it has needed from time to time. I also had a lot more expenses in the first year after I bought it doing "catch up" maintenance that the previous owner had apparently deferred.
The most important thing to do is to find an independent mechanic very familiar with air-cooled 911s (NOT the Porsche dealer), which will become a new relationship in your life. The local PCA chapter and here on Rennlist are some good sources for referrals. If you want a reliable and well-performing 911, you need to pay to keep it in good health. I think of it as payments in lieu of the massive depreciation that I would suffer if I bought a new Cayman, M3, etc. If you can't swing dropping $3-5k in a single shot on repairs without hating the car, you shouldn't buy it. It was an $75k car when new and maintenance expenses are commensurate with that amount, not the $25k that you pay for it.
Best of luck.
It has been extremely reliable, never leaving me stranded or not starting in the morning (other than some dead batteries due to a low level drain that I haven't been able to figure out and non-use for some extended periods in the winter).
I don't do any of my own work, since I don't have the tools and (quite frankly) the skill. The $2k/year average maintenance expenses has proven to be pretty accurate, but it's been much more "lumpy", with <$1k/year for oil changes and minor stuff in some years but $4-5k in some years for valve adjustments and significant repairs that it has needed from time to time. I also had a lot more expenses in the first year after I bought it doing "catch up" maintenance that the previous owner had apparently deferred.
The most important thing to do is to find an independent mechanic very familiar with air-cooled 911s (NOT the Porsche dealer), which will become a new relationship in your life. The local PCA chapter and here on Rennlist are some good sources for referrals. If you want a reliable and well-performing 911, you need to pay to keep it in good health. I think of it as payments in lieu of the massive depreciation that I would suffer if I bought a new Cayman, M3, etc. If you can't swing dropping $3-5k in a single shot on repairs without hating the car, you shouldn't buy it. It was an $75k car when new and maintenance expenses are commensurate with that amount, not the $25k that you pay for it.
Best of luck.
10-15-2008, 01:08 AM
#11
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I would recommend pulling all the maintenance records and look for trends of issues (repeat offenders) that you may need to deal with as its good to know about these (if any) in advance. The maintenance records will also help to define a preventative maintenance list which should include time frames for repair and or replacement of these items. Example, if the distributer belt has not been replace that should be on top of the list. Shocks if still original, will also need to be replaced soon, same with the battery.
There are lots of people on this site with more experience then me that could identify what also to *** to the preventive maintenance list.
Good luck, Just remember, it's just a car but what a great ride it is.
There are lots of people on this site with more experience then me that could identify what also to *** to the preventive maintenance list.
Good luck, Just remember, it's just a car but what a great ride it is.
10-15-2008, 09:51 AM
#12
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Welcome!!
My 2 cents (this is what I did when I got mine):
Do a 15K maintenance on it (oil, all filters, valve adjustment, spark plugs, dist. Rotors and caps, etc.).
Flush the brake lines (complete brake fluid flush) and don’t forget to bleed the clutch as well.
Do an alignment.
Validate the vent kit for the distributor is in place. But I would also just replace the distributor belt.
Change all the small oil hoses at the bottom of the oil tank.
Replace all the belts and have a spare set in the trunk (no, they don’t break, just in case…)
Remove engine tray and the rear wheel well covers. Clean the engine and wheel well area and check for leaks. You will loose a few pounds on dirt just by doing this…
Replace both steering pump hoses.
Replace the DME Relay and buy a spare one.
Check the conditions of the brake rotors and pads.
Later on I would recommend the following:
Replace both ceramic resistors (these are for oil cooler and A/C cooler).
At night, car running, open the hood and spray a mist of water over the sparkplug wires. If you hear or see sparks, you will need to replace the wires. VertexAuto has a good price on those. Also replace the two coils when you get to that.
Replace brake hoses and clutch slave hose. They just get old and deteriorate.
Drive another 964… that will give you a better idea on what else might be needed. That is how I found out my suspension was crap… before I drove another car with new suspension I thought mine was normal. Just don’t drive another example with a big brake kit upgrade or you will be reaching for your credit card for that as well… is a sickness I tell you!
I also recommend getting the books Rocket Rob listed and joining Rennlist.
Post as many photos of your car and anything you do to it… you will be helping someone else with the same questions.
Look at my thread for some of the stuff I have done to my car over the last few years…
My 2 cents (this is what I did when I got mine):
Do a 15K maintenance on it (oil, all filters, valve adjustment, spark plugs, dist. Rotors and caps, etc.).
Flush the brake lines (complete brake fluid flush) and don’t forget to bleed the clutch as well.
Do an alignment.
Validate the vent kit for the distributor is in place. But I would also just replace the distributor belt.
Change all the small oil hoses at the bottom of the oil tank.
Replace all the belts and have a spare set in the trunk (no, they don’t break, just in case…)
Remove engine tray and the rear wheel well covers. Clean the engine and wheel well area and check for leaks. You will loose a few pounds on dirt just by doing this…
Replace both steering pump hoses.
Replace the DME Relay and buy a spare one.
Check the conditions of the brake rotors and pads.
Later on I would recommend the following:
Replace both ceramic resistors (these are for oil cooler and A/C cooler).
At night, car running, open the hood and spray a mist of water over the sparkplug wires. If you hear or see sparks, you will need to replace the wires. VertexAuto has a good price on those. Also replace the two coils when you get to that.
Replace brake hoses and clutch slave hose. They just get old and deteriorate.
Drive another 964… that will give you a better idea on what else might be needed. That is how I found out my suspension was crap… before I drove another car with new suspension I thought mine was normal. Just don’t drive another example with a big brake kit upgrade or you will be reaching for your credit card for that as well… is a sickness I tell you!
I also recommend getting the books Rocket Rob listed and joining Rennlist.
Post as many photos of your car and anything you do to it… you will be helping someone else with the same questions.
Look at my thread for some of the stuff I have done to my car over the last few years…
10-20-2008, 12:42 AM
#15
This is a great thread. I also just got my first Porsche. It's a '91 964 C2 Cab in Guards Red. 118K miles. Wachuko, your advice on what to do as soon as you get it, that looks like it's about $3K? There is some oil underneath when parked. Will that be addressed in the 15K service?
Where do we post pics of the cars? I'll post in this thread for now unless told otherwise. Note the bow on top; this was a surprise gift to me from my wife for our 15th anniversary.
Oh, what is the advantage of getting the paid rennlist membership? I've already found so much in the free forums.
Matt
Where do we post pics of the cars? I'll post in this thread for now unless told otherwise. Note the bow on top; this was a surprise gift to me from my wife for our 15th anniversary.
Oh, what is the advantage of getting the paid rennlist membership? I've already found so much in the free forums.
Matt