altarchsa

Some advice please.

I have an opportunity to buy a Midnight Blue '96 Carrera for a great price, but I will have to sell my Grand Prix White '89 964 C4 to pay for it.

Those of you familiar with this forum might remember some of the problems that you've so graciously helped me resolve on the C4. So I have some mixed feelings about selling the C4, now that it is finally running so great. However, it's a really attractive deal because I can increase my equity by about $15,000 by buying the 993, due to the low price ("brother-in-law" deal). It's apparently in much better condition inside and out, although I have not seen it in person yet. Mileage is a little high, but my 964 has over 110,000, so that's not a big consideration. The 993 has some nice options like heated, electrically controlled seats both sides and the 210 sound system, but it also has an automatic limited slip differential, which I understand is a great performance option. Otherwise, it's pretty much stock with sunroof, etc. My 964 is also stock with similar options, except for the LSD.

My questions for this Forum are:

1. Do any of you have experience with both these cars, or with similar models?

2. What differences will I find in the 993?

3. What do you think my 964 is worth?

4. How long would you guess it will take me to sell it at a "very reasonable" price?

No responses necessary regarding aesthetics or purchasing please, as I am familiar with the differences in the looks of these cars and know how to buy a used Porsche. I'm more concerned about performance, feel, maintenance costs, common problems with the 993, etc.

My 964:

GPW/Cashmere C4 110,000 miles

New parts: steering rack, tie rod ends, rear wheel bearing, valve guides, valve springs, rocker shafts/bolts/nuts, wrist pins, rings, rod bearings, flywheel and rod bolts, battery, fuel pump, O2 sensor and Pagid black pads .

R & R: resurfaced flywheel and lower valve covers, rear inner and outer C.V. joint boots.

2 years ago (previous owner): Complete top end, then bottom end overhaul when they found additional problems on start up. Replaced ECU and R & R'd A/C. Work totaled over $11,300. New parts above were installed as preventative when a valve broke recently. Apparently the only thing not replaced with the $11,300 were the valve guides. Don't ask me why.

Extras: Cup pipe (have original muffler), Alpine head unit with Sirius Radio component and IPod pigtail, 5 channel high power Alpine amp, Infinity component system in doors and 10" JL sub in custom made box matching interior finishes in rear seat well (have original seat back). Chrome D90's with 3/4 good Pilot Sports. Extra set of painted D90's with 1/2 good asym. Yoko's.

Everything works properly except passenger window (switch maybe?), driver door keyway locking and cigarette lighter. NO oil leaks. Engine pulls strong and smoothly to red line.

Exterior: Shines like new, usual paint chips and dings with mileage but more than usual in driver door, above rt. rear wheel well and below passenger door. Minor scuffs on bumpers.

Interior: Clean, but seats are cracked (next project was to R & R leather), no tears. No cracks in dash,smooth visors, etc.

Thanks in advance for your help, one more time. If I make the deal, I'll probably continue watching this forum "in memorium" because everyone's been so great and the 964 is such a wonderful car. Maybe I'll eventually convert the additional equity into another 964 with lower mileage .

Bearclaw

If you have the opportunity to buy a decent 993 at basically a 'discount', I would jump on it if it were me. I see them as the "last and best of the breed", but that's just me. If I could have afforded one when I bought, I would have gone that way.

Just shooting from the hip, I'd say your car would sell pretty well at $17K in this rather soft market today.

You should really pose this question to the 993 forum. A lot of those folks have already made this move. Several have one of each.

ilko

Do it.

N51

[QUOTE=altarchsa;5755144]Some advice please.
So I have some mixed feelings about selling the C4, now that it is finally running so great.

If you enjoy your car, don't do it.
If you prefer a Porsche that does not look like a 911, then enjoy a 993.

TR6

A 993 C2 at a good price would be hard to pass up if it were me. A 1989 C4 would be easier to turn loose of. But I agree with Bearclaw that you probably couldn't get all that much for the C4 in this market and given that it's an early C4. Just my 2 cents.

Oh yeah, and take that sub woofer box out and you may have a better shot at selling it.

cobalt

Drive the 993 first. It is slightly different. I don't like the gearing of the 6 speed and you do have to worry about OBD2 issues that the 964's don't have. Also if you are used to a C4 remember your going to RWD which is a different experience.

Although the varioram is nice, and midnight blue is about the best (IMO) color for a 993.

Good luck with your decision.

altarchsa

Thanks for the quick responses guys!

The 6 speed gearing and OBD2 comments are the type responses I was looking for. Any further explanation of these?

I might be satisfied with $17 or $18K, even though I've got a lot more than that in the C4. The deal on the 993 is that good. Yea, I would probably settle for $18K if an easy, sure deal. Might need to pull the phenomenal Alpine amp and Infinity Kappa Perfect component speakers at that price,

I do love my 964 and it's running absolutely great. STRONG, no noise and no leaks. everything right. But I can't ignore the $15,000K jump in equity. I just need to drive the 993. I wonder about any common problems, although I think the one I'm looking at has enough miles that it's probably already been through the traditional repairs/updates. I've owned three middle '70's era 911s, so I understand the difference between the C4 and C2. I will definitely miss that outside lane pass on the I10 to I410 flyover in the wet. C4's are awesomely safe.

Re: the JL sub enclosure, it's not the typical gray felt box. This is a custom box finished to match adjacent carpet and vinyl materials and sits down in the seat well to match the back-down seat back on the other side. All you see is the JL grill in what looks like the folded down seat back. And once you crank this system with this amp and this sub, it is incredible. It is completely removable and restorable to stock condition though.

Like I said, I'm familiar with the looks. I think the front of the 964 is true 911, but the *** of the 993 is wow.

Any other advice or comments?

DaveK

You mentioned maintenance costs - servicing at least should be lower with a 993, due to hydraulic valves.

ilko

The US 6-speed G50 gearbox in the 993 is a major complaint among owners. Gears are really tall and don't flow as well as on a US G50 5-speed 964.

96+ US cars have the OBDII system and also have secondary air injection (SAI) ports that get clogged up with carbon and trigger a CEL. You can't pass inspection with a CEL and up until recently the only way to fix the SAI issue was to tear down the engine and clean the ports. Lately there have been some workarounds, you can do a search on the 993 forum on that.

That being said I'd still do it in a heart beat. Although in this market and in this time of the year I don't know if you can get your asking price for your C4.

Good luck either way!

Steven C.

I thought the CEL issue was also valve guide related?

Frank 993 C4S

Here are my thoughts:

- Do a search on the 993 forum for "CEL" - Check Engine Light. On '96 onward model cars it is a major PITA due to tthe OBDII diagnostics mandatory in US cars at that time.
- IMHO, the CEL is from the SAI (Secondary Air Injection) passages getting blocked. These passages function as an air pump into a cold catalytic converter
_ This is an emissions issue only and it is ONLY an issue on '96 onward US cars
- There are various theories around this issue, involving people not driving the car, doing a lot of short trips, cold starts or not taking care of valve guide problems.

I am certain that you would enjoy the 993 over your 964, however this is a possible issue that you should be aware of. I can certainly be fixed but it will cost you $$

Akerlie

96+ US do not have the same gearing as pre 96 cars IIRC

TR6

+1

newsboy

Did you say the 993 has an automatic, or were you referring to the LSD. If it's a tiptronic, I would stay with the 964(my opinion only).If it a standard, go for it. Whatever you do, drive the car 1st.

Ritter v4.0

I did the opposite. I sold my C4S and bot 2 964s.
IMO the 964 is the better "value". You get >90% of the 993 peformance for <70% of the price.
Still, money aside if you like the looks of the 993 get it. Otherwise keep the C4 and bank the money- or use for mods or future repairs.