MisterRisky

I can get Brad Penn for a fraction of the price and get better protection. Seems an easy solution.

993James993

wysbert, some say that the new fomulation of Mobil One can lead to excess wear due to a reduction in zinc (ZDDP). If you have 20 min follow the link that I included in the initial post of this thread. Very knowledgeable folks express differning opinions. Many seem to feel its better to be safe than sorry by using an oil with higher ZDDP levels. Given the cost of engine work now days I am strongly considering switching away from Mobil One.

Chris M.

Where and how much?

Anyone using the Valvoline VR-1 racing oil?

psiegel

Yes I do use VR-1 as highly recommended by the folks who did my conversion

Chris M.

20W-50?

psiegel

exactly

springer3

I see three formulations of Mobile 1 synthetic on the shelf: "full synthetic", "high mileage", and "extended performance". If I read the analyses correctly, "extended performance" still has the higher zinc content. Last change I used "extented performance" Mobile 1 10W-30, but I am watching this issue carefully. I hate to switch because I have a leak free engine, and switching brands can result in sealing issues.

MisterRisky

Chris, I'm getting my Brad Penn from a local guy here in Richmond and I believe its about $25-30 a case. He's literally an old hot rodder who sells it out of his basement. I go over to his house and pick it up and he tells me old racing stories for half an hour and then I go home. It's a pretty good deal. He used to only sell Amsoil but started carrying Brad Penn so that he would have a more affordable line for the drag racers who change their oil after every run.

Charles Navarro

Although already discussed in other threads, I'll point out the VR-1 was also reformulated and is now worthless. Again, shopping by brand doesn't always insure a good oil. I've had at least one customer recently have a catastrophic cam failure with the new VR-1 in an engine that had just been inspected and everything had looked like new, but run with the old stuff.

If you want to keep using a Valvoline product, your choices are the non-street-legal racing oils (not the same as VR-1) or their 4-stroke motorcycle oils. Can't comment on the m/c oils because I have not run them personally, but in my 911 I got excellent UOA's with the non-street-legal oil but because of its reduced detergency, you pretty much have to change your oil somewhere around 2,000 mi and I would dare say not to go over 3 months either, because who knows about how low the oils corrosion inhibitors might be as well.

Charles Navarro

The extended performance oils have lower Zn and P and to make things worse, have higher levels of detergency (primarily using a Ca metal based detergent) that can also lead to more wear based on recent published SAE papers due to the interaction between the Ca and the metal wear surfaces blocking the formation of the Zn/P anti-wear films.

Also, take a quick look at the other oil threads, you won't find any reference to the use of a 10w30 oil. Most definately, Mobil 1 10w30 would even be a poor choice of oil compared to Mobil 1 0w40 for many reasons - even lower Zn and P, lower HTHS viscosity, etc.

That said, really, you should be considering something like a 15w40 or 20w50 in your engine. If you have been running Mobil 1, switching to another oil, syn or not, should not results in any new or increased leaking.

Larry Herman

Charles, what numbers for Zn & P are we looking for?

Like I mentioned earlier, I run Amsoil (in all my vehicles and trucks) and have been satisfied with it's performance, and the lack of debris on the drain plug when changing the oil. It seems to do very well in the few tests that I have seen. Strangely, it is usually not compared with the other oils.

Charles Navarro

Which Amsoil product do you run? I've run the Harley V-Twin 20w50 Amsoil with great results from UOA.

One of the oils we tested a few weeks back in our HP testing, from a VOA, had tons of Zn and P (~2000 ppm), along with boron, and TONS of moly. You would think it would be a great oil. It didn't make horsepower nor did it give good UOA results. The used oil test results were horrific. Same goes with what we experienced with Castrol GTX - it has 1400 ppm Zn and P but accumulated wear about three times faster than Brad Penn, RP, Amsoil, and M1 V-Twin, when we did our on-the-road evaluations of all these oils back in 2006.

That said, I'll refrain from actual Zn and P numbers - it has to do with the whole formulation of the oil, in particular, also the type and concentration of detergents used. That's also the same reason I pulled the Zn and P table off my site and don't recommend using oil additives anymore - people were getting over-fixated on the Zn and P alone.

Brad Penn is 1100-1200ppm Zn and P and Swepco is ~1350-1450 ppm Zn and P.

And I know someone will point out that the new, reformulated M1 15w50 has similar levels to the Brad Penn, but they are completely different in their formulation. The Brad Penn is not friction modified, has about a third the level of Ca-based detergents (uses Mg and Na detergents in lieu of high levels of Ca).

Their reason oil companies use primarily a Ca-based detergent is that it is more thermally stable and will be longer-lived, so there will be better TBN retention (allowing for longer drains). As we've already determined, what the manufacturers have recommened for drains versus what should be done is different and we know that more frequent oil changes are a must, so trying to have 12,000, 15,000, or 24,000 mi or more drain intervals is not a concern here. I'd rather have an oil that provides better wear protection that needs to be changed a little more often. It's worth stating that Brad Penn still manages a TBN of 10 without having the need for high Ca levels. (Porsche's spec requires a minimum detergency of TBN = 10).

0396

Charles,

so if you were me, what would you use in a 996?

Thank you.

Larry Herman

I run their Series 2000 Synthetic 20w50 Racing oil (TRO) in the RSA, the SAE 10w30 (ATM) for the cars and vans and the SAE 15w40 Synthetic Heavy Duty Diesel & Marine oil (AME) for the Diesel.

pete000

I had no idea Amsoil was so popular. I have used it for years. Haven't got it in my car at them moment though. Mobil 1 10w30 right now.

I might have to look into the Brad Penn oil everyone is raving about.