My car has a Steve Weiner built one @315hp. 350? Sure, with a really, really, really built-to-the-edge engine. Anyway, it's nice, but the gearing is more important. On equivalent tires, there is about a 2.5 sec/lap difference between the old RSA stock class racer and the 993 at Thunderhill. The 993 is 250 lbs heavier. If you're in the Bay Area, or visiting, you're welcome to sample.

 

Built-to-the-edge? If you're inferring expenses above and beyond a stock 3.8l, then I agree. It takes something($$$$) more to move the bar, but do it, and these engines are not so on the edge. Just built to optimum. Expensive to be sure, but very streetable.

 

The Ninemeister gets 350 or more from a 3.6 with those fancy heads. Do a search as there are several threads here and an article in the August 2006 issue of Total 911 about it.

 

The reality is that you could purchase the 3.8l pistons and cylinders from a 993RS (slip fit) for about 1.9x the cost of factory 3.6l pistons and cylinders and install them in the engine. You would need someone like John at Vitesse or Todd at Protomotive to reprogram the fuel and ignition tables to accomodate the additional fueling requirements and slightly higher compression the 3.8l engines have. In fact, if someone had a chip already set to those specifications, then it would be a simple matter. The fact is, that in order to effectively gain any power from these engines, you need to have an engine management system capable of being reprogrammed.

 

Love the info and opinions

Are you happy with it? What other modifications (fuel system, etc) do you have? Ballpark cost?

I don't follow. Which car is faster?

Maybe with the heads, Motec, lots of revs and high octane fuel. Can anyone add more info about this 350hp 3.6L?

This sounds like the kind of combo that I am looking for. For a non-race car are there any major downsides to doing it this way? Maybe $10k in parts + labour?

 

Contact Rennlist user '95 993. He has the 9M package.

 

Fast'

With all respect to other forum members, you need to search out those of us who have done the work. No hearsay, just facts. Christer, Geoffrey, Colin, Todd and myself. We're equally divided and diverse. But so similar in approach :-) I've learned to grow in it, and benefit from everyone.

Best,

 

I bought mine as a completed car about a year ago. Previous owner ended up with about $30K toward the engine. Happy? Sure, it's a complete, and I do mean COMPLETE car. I don't need another race car; I WANT a 993RS, but with the exchange rate that's just not in my spare change fund at the moment. So I end up with a car that outperforms it, less the pedigree VIN. For 40-50% of the cost.

The engine was built with reliability in mind--GT3R oil pump, Pauter rods, stuff like that. RS valves, cams, remapped Motronic, GHL exhaust. Has hydraulic rockers. They went back and forth with the Varioram, decided it didn't add anything to the equation.

The 993 is unquestionably faster around the track. And u-n-b-e-l-i-e-v-a-b-l-y satisfying to drive. I'm basically on pace with the lone 997GT3RS that runs here. (He is about 4 car lengths quicker down the front straight, and that's A LOT to get on pure acceleration.) And no 996GT3 has EVER stayed in front of me. Now that was on some 4 year old RA1's. Best time on dead Hoosiers is ~2:01, those RA1's ~2:04. My D Stock RSA still holds the lap record @ 2:03.5 (from '03). All full-track Thunderhill. When I want to dial it back to a 2:06-:07, you can basically be asleep at the wheel. But that's more than the engine when we get into that discussion. Motons, properly set up, are your friend.

Bottom line for me is that if this car had a stock engine, and weighed 250 lbs less, it would be 99% as enjoyable. To that end, the 3.8 might come out at some point this year.

 

Look guys, the 145cc bump in displacement from a 3.6l engine is not going to make worlds of difference on its own. In fact, the 3.8l engine is really only 3745cc or a 3.7l engine. The "3.8l" engines have other companion parts that help to make it an improved package. This includes camshafts, cylinder heads/valves, less restrictive intake (MAF rather than AFM), raised compression, revised engine mapping, etc. This all helps to function as a system and to produce more power than the 3.6l engines. The pistons and cylinders by themselves, don't add much.

 

It's always good to say it again...

 

Not trying to push parts at all, it's worth mentioning I've been doing slip-fit 103s for quite some time now and are race proven and are overkill still strength wise for the street. Same goes with the machine-in 109s, I've taken them out to 105 and can even go 106 safely, but rings get difficult in bore sizes larger than 105!

 

Has anyone been able to extract any reliable HP from playing with the compression ratios on these cars? 3.6 to 3.8 seems like a waste of time and money unless you exhaust any other ways of extracting hp/tq. The additional displacement is so minor that a proper tune and cams could possibly yield more gains? No? Maybe some custom cams and ported heads? I am speaking in general tuning terms, so pardon my lack of knowledge on the 3.6L.

 

For street use, you can develop an engine with a broad torque range and good power without going to 3.8l which as you menion only adds 146cc to the displacement. I think the larger bore is best left for racing engines where you've already maximized compression, cylinder head flow, cams, exhaust and intake.

 

Thanks for the input. Thats what I thought. What are the available cam upgrades? Are they all OEM swaps or is there an aftermarket option available? My experience with german engines is that even the OEM upgrade cams are not aggressive enough.

 

I use custom grid cams for all of the engines we do here based on cylinder head flow data and the intended engine operating conditions because as you mention, the OEM cams are based on old technology and are small.