Who is making the scantool interfaces?
07-02-2007, 10:45 PM
#16
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Ok, i think its a good time to throw in my 2 cents worth.
Andy Whitaker's PCB works, if you can get a reply to an email, if you can get one and if you know which resistors to cut etc.
I took the original scantool schematics etc from an old thread and made some minor improvements and decided to put it together through a PCB manufacturer – I only wanted one for myself. In the end to have them manufactured the minimum I could get away with was 20 (and that was with a LOT of sweet talking), several Rennlisters have those Plug’n’Play diagnostic units. I also made the 19 pin plug to fit the car out of rubber AC plugs, it works well but it sounds like mojorizing has done a far better job.
Since then I had sorted out a USB solution for those with USB only ports on their laptops. I asked the PCB manufacturer to redesign the board to integrate the FTDI chip so that the unit would just need a standard USB cable to plug into the laptop – the price he came back with was just too high per unit. This meant a rather large investment on my part to pursue the diagnostic tool.
In the mean time I had resigned from my job and am still currently on my 2 month break before taking up a new position next week. As well i am having my car repainted so I couldn’t really afford to not work, pay for the car and make some diagnostic tools.
If Ricardo is running a PCB group buy that’s great, the only difference between the 993 board and the 964 board is the switches. For 964 cars just short 2 sets of pins for the switches on the PCB. I would also recommend just having the one LED, not 3, to show you have power. My original units had 3 LED’s – wasted really.
Useful bits of info:
The USB to serial connector/cable MUST have the chip manufactured by FTDI.
On any USB/Serial packagings look for any or all of the following:
FTDI chip
Support for legacy serial devices (RS232/RS422/RS485)
FT232R, FT245R, FT2232, FT232B, FT245B, FT8U232AM, FT8U245AM
Why the FTDI chip?
Because as far as I have seen it is the only one that supports a transfer rate as low as 300 Baud, in other words it’s pretty flexible with the transfer rate. FTDI also have better software for their chip.
The following companies appear to supply a USB to Serial cable using the FTDI chip:
http://www.siig.com/product.asp?catid=18&pid=252 or Part #: JU-CB1S12-S3
http://www.saelig.com/miva/merchant....Category_Code=
Once you have the hardware DO NOT use the supplied software, go to the FTDI home page and download their driver for your Operating System.
http://www.ftdichip.com/Drivers/VCP.htm
Instructions for W2K. (XP is almost exactly the same)
Download the software into a folder and unzip it.
Plug in the USB cable to your laptops USB port, Windows will detect the hardware and ask for the software. Point it to the folder where you downloaded the FTDI software. Once installed check Device Manager to make sure you see an extra “USB Serial Port” under “Ports”.
Next, right click on the “USB Serial Port” in Device Manager, select Properties, select Port Settings, and click on the Advanced Button. This where you MUST set the new port to COM 1 if it isn’t already.
Click OK.
Pins:
www.rs-components.com.au
Search for RS Stock No. 221-1808
The male pins are a perfect size.
Hopefully the above info will help others and give everyone enough confidence to go ahead and do another group buy.
If there is anything else i can help with - just ask.
Cheers,
Nick
Andy Whitaker's PCB works, if you can get a reply to an email, if you can get one and if you know which resistors to cut etc.
I took the original scantool schematics etc from an old thread and made some minor improvements and decided to put it together through a PCB manufacturer – I only wanted one for myself. In the end to have them manufactured the minimum I could get away with was 20 (and that was with a LOT of sweet talking), several Rennlisters have those Plug’n’Play diagnostic units. I also made the 19 pin plug to fit the car out of rubber AC plugs, it works well but it sounds like mojorizing has done a far better job.
Since then I had sorted out a USB solution for those with USB only ports on their laptops. I asked the PCB manufacturer to redesign the board to integrate the FTDI chip so that the unit would just need a standard USB cable to plug into the laptop – the price he came back with was just too high per unit. This meant a rather large investment on my part to pursue the diagnostic tool.
In the mean time I had resigned from my job and am still currently on my 2 month break before taking up a new position next week. As well i am having my car repainted so I couldn’t really afford to not work, pay for the car and make some diagnostic tools.
If Ricardo is running a PCB group buy that’s great, the only difference between the 993 board and the 964 board is the switches. For 964 cars just short 2 sets of pins for the switches on the PCB. I would also recommend just having the one LED, not 3, to show you have power. My original units had 3 LED’s – wasted really.
Useful bits of info:
The USB to serial connector/cable MUST have the chip manufactured by FTDI.
On any USB/Serial packagings look for any or all of the following:
FTDI chip
Support for legacy serial devices (RS232/RS422/RS485)
FT232R, FT245R, FT2232, FT232B, FT245B, FT8U232AM, FT8U245AM
Why the FTDI chip?
Because as far as I have seen it is the only one that supports a transfer rate as low as 300 Baud, in other words it’s pretty flexible with the transfer rate. FTDI also have better software for their chip.
The following companies appear to supply a USB to Serial cable using the FTDI chip:
http://www.siig.com/product.asp?catid=18&pid=252 or Part #: JU-CB1S12-S3
http://www.saelig.com/miva/merchant....Category_Code=
Once you have the hardware DO NOT use the supplied software, go to the FTDI home page and download their driver for your Operating System.
http://www.ftdichip.com/Drivers/VCP.htm
Instructions for W2K. (XP is almost exactly the same)
Download the software into a folder and unzip it.
Plug in the USB cable to your laptops USB port, Windows will detect the hardware and ask for the software. Point it to the folder where you downloaded the FTDI software. Once installed check Device Manager to make sure you see an extra “USB Serial Port” under “Ports”.
Next, right click on the “USB Serial Port” in Device Manager, select Properties, select Port Settings, and click on the Advanced Button. This where you MUST set the new port to COM 1 if it isn’t already.
Click OK.
Pins:
www.rs-components.com.au
Search for RS Stock No. 221-1808
The male pins are a perfect size.
Hopefully the above info will help others and give everyone enough confidence to go ahead and do another group buy.
If there is anything else i can help with - just ask.
Cheers,
Nick
07-02-2007, 11:44 PM
#17
Technical Guru
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Originally Posted by nirich
the only difference between the 993 board and the 964 board is the switches.
07-03-2007, 01:10 AM
#18
Rennlist Member
A big thank you to Nick for the USB to RS232 solutions as that was a piece of the puzzle I was missing as I know many people would also want one of these adapters.
I have worked in the electronics packaging industry for the past 8 years. By that I mean designing mechanical enclosures for electronics (engine control units, sensor boxes, and now mobile phones). What I have been doing with all my free time the past 10 days or so is developing a PCB layout and simple mechanical enclosure from off the shelf parts so that the 993 and 964 guys can have a nice, clean, and simple solution. In my day job I am dealing with huge volumes, millions of units, and we buy our own tooling and manufacture in China. In this situation I am dealing with a volume of less than 100, probably 20. It makes things very hard to do cheaply. I am doing this domestically. Suddenly a 50 cent switch costs $9.
Nonetheless, I am using all of my work tools, to do a full 3D model of the package to get the mechanical & electrical interface right and to help me exactly place the wire holes, switches, LEDs, and connectors on the PCB. I am using RayCMs schematic with the 3 LEDs. I'm a mechanical engineer and I know ohm's law and that's about it. So I am not the guy to talk to about schematic improvement. I taught myself how to use free schematic and PCB layout software to make the board to my specifications for a simple and clean mechanical package. Ray's schematic works.
In about two weeks I will be building two of these things. One 964 version for myself and one 993 version. The only difference being the vehicle connector. I designed this in such a way that I can do a "production run" (if you consider qty 20 production) if there is enough demand. I am lining up the quotes now to nail down the costs, and figuring out how much final mechanical assembly and mechanical part modification I will be required to perform. My target price was $100 but its looking like a range of $130 to $170 depending upon if you need an OBD1 or OBDII connector, and whether you want a serial cable or use Nick's recommended serial to USB cable. (I don't have a confirmed source for the OBD1 connector and have yet to determine how to make a small batch myself for around $30 a piece).
I want to offer a 100% complete solution. You open the box I ship you, you have all the cables, download your software, and then your software problems begin.
... but if these prices are considered outrageous and I can't get more than 10 people interested, then I will just do a run of bare boards of Cowtown's design since its very flexible to make a package to your liking and just redistribute those to the interested parties at around $13 a piece. These bare PCBs will include soldermask and silkscreen to help you with soldering. You then have to source the BOM, do the soldering, and then make some kind of enclosure to your liking. A lot of people don't seem to want that hassle so that's why I am making my 964 and 993 prototypes to the quality level that I wouldn't be ashamed of offering to another Rennlister.
I have worked in the electronics packaging industry for the past 8 years. By that I mean designing mechanical enclosures for electronics (engine control units, sensor boxes, and now mobile phones). What I have been doing with all my free time the past 10 days or so is developing a PCB layout and simple mechanical enclosure from off the shelf parts so that the 993 and 964 guys can have a nice, clean, and simple solution. In my day job I am dealing with huge volumes, millions of units, and we buy our own tooling and manufacture in China. In this situation I am dealing with a volume of less than 100, probably 20. It makes things very hard to do cheaply. I am doing this domestically. Suddenly a 50 cent switch costs $9.
Nonetheless, I am using all of my work tools, to do a full 3D model of the package to get the mechanical & electrical interface right and to help me exactly place the wire holes, switches, LEDs, and connectors on the PCB. I am using RayCMs schematic with the 3 LEDs. I'm a mechanical engineer and I know ohm's law and that's about it. So I am not the guy to talk to about schematic improvement. I taught myself how to use free schematic and PCB layout software to make the board to my specifications for a simple and clean mechanical package. Ray's schematic works.
In about two weeks I will be building two of these things. One 964 version for myself and one 993 version. The only difference being the vehicle connector. I designed this in such a way that I can do a "production run" (if you consider qty 20 production) if there is enough demand. I am lining up the quotes now to nail down the costs, and figuring out how much final mechanical assembly and mechanical part modification I will be required to perform. My target price was $100 but its looking like a range of $130 to $170 depending upon if you need an OBD1 or OBDII connector, and whether you want a serial cable or use Nick's recommended serial to USB cable. (I don't have a confirmed source for the OBD1 connector and have yet to determine how to make a small batch myself for around $30 a piece).
I want to offer a 100% complete solution. You open the box I ship you, you have all the cables, download your software, and then your software problems begin.
... but if these prices are considered outrageous and I can't get more than 10 people interested, then I will just do a run of bare boards of Cowtown's design since its very flexible to make a package to your liking and just redistribute those to the interested parties at around $13 a piece. These bare PCBs will include soldermask and silkscreen to help you with soldering. You then have to source the BOM, do the soldering, and then make some kind of enclosure to your liking. A lot of people don't seem to want that hassle so that's why I am making my 964 and 993 prototypes to the quality level that I wouldn't be ashamed of offering to another Rennlister.
07-03-2007, 01:18 AM
#19
Rennlist Member
Jason,
If you can figure out a way to get rid of those switches please let me know. My 993 prototype only has one switch. Down for Motronic, middle for SRS, UP for ABS or something like that. As a mechanical engineer I am very proud of the fact that I figured out that two SPDT switches in series is actually just a single DPDT (on-on-on) switch.
Problem is that damn switch is costing me $9 a pop. And if I do a run of assemblies and some extra, I will include the $9 switch in the extras just in case the extras are wanted by a 993 guy. And to simplify things at the board assembly house I may just put a switch on all units. I don't want to handle multiple types of assemblies.
If you can figure out a way to get rid of those switches please let me know. My 993 prototype only has one switch. Down for Motronic, middle for SRS, UP for ABS or something like that. As a mechanical engineer I am very proud of the fact that I figured out that two SPDT switches in series is actually just a single DPDT (on-on-on) switch.
Problem is that damn switch is costing me $9 a pop. And if I do a run of assemblies and some extra, I will include the $9 switch in the extras just in case the extras are wanted by a 993 guy. And to simplify things at the board assembly house I may just put a switch on all units. I don't want to handle multiple types of assemblies.
07-03-2007, 11:28 AM
#21
Three Wheelin'
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If you are fairly handy with tools and don't mind a little experimentation you can etch you own PC board. In one of the other threads I provided a link to a guy who shows how to do it. Basically you print out a negative image of the PC board on white paper using a laser printer. Then you iron the print over the copper clad board. If you do it right the image stays adhered to the copper. You can then put the board in an etching solution and it will etch away all the copper that isn't covered by the print. Use some solvent and wash it away and drill the holes. It's actually an easy process.
If you are having a hard time locating a USB connector with the correct chip you can also use a PCMCIA to DB9 connector to get things working. They are about the same price if I recall correctly.
I also have a loaner diagnostic tool floating around out there somewhere. It's free for any Rennlist member to use. Just PM me and I'll track down who has it and ask that they ship it to you.
If you are having a hard time locating a USB connector with the correct chip you can also use a PCMCIA to DB9 connector to get things working. They are about the same price if I recall correctly.
I also have a loaner diagnostic tool floating around out there somewhere. It's free for any Rennlist member to use. Just PM me and I'll track down who has it and ask that they ship it to you.
07-03-2007, 03:22 PM
#24
Drifting
Ricardo, per my previous, PM, I'm in. Just wanted to get that out there, now that you've posted some pricing estimates.
I'm sure that there alot of folks interested in a turn-key solution. Regarding the DIY, I'm sure there are alot of folks that will benefit from that info, but for me, I could cut my own lawn, too, but I choose not to. The only DIY stuff I do are things that i enjoy, and I can see myself getting frustrated quickly with a project like this.
Thanks to all for sharing info and helping out the lazybones.
I'm sure that there alot of folks interested in a turn-key solution. Regarding the DIY, I'm sure there are alot of folks that will benefit from that info, but for me, I could cut my own lawn, too, but I choose not to. The only DIY stuff I do are things that i enjoy, and I can see myself getting frustrated quickly with a project like this.
Thanks to all for sharing info and helping out the lazybones.
07-03-2007, 07:21 PM
#25
Racer
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Sorry for the late reply.
I think i need to gather bits so i will start with the USB lead suggested and start collecting, im definately going to have a go at this because there is now two of us down here and its 100 miles to the nearest plugin at Porsche in Exeter.
Dont be supprised to see this thread pop up every other day as i will be asking for the next step, i will keep the thread going step by step for those who fancy soldering.
I expect to have some hickups on the way, but i have chipped a few things in the past if you catch my drift so i should be ok. (fingers crossed)
First order tomorrow :-)
I think i need to gather bits so i will start with the USB lead suggested and start collecting, im definately going to have a go at this because there is now two of us down here and its 100 miles to the nearest plugin at Porsche in Exeter.
Dont be supprised to see this thread pop up every other day as i will be asking for the next step, i will keep the thread going step by step for those who fancy soldering.
I expect to have some hickups on the way, but i have chipped a few things in the past if you catch my drift so i should be ok. (fingers crossed)
First order tomorrow :-)
07-09-2007, 10:58 PM
#26
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If the boards can't be found, I could lay out a PCB and get some boards made. The more we make the cheaper they get. The circuit is pretty simple. It would probably have holes for the wires to go to nails or something to plug into the connector on the car.
07-10-2007, 12:16 AM
#27
Rennlist Member
I have some boards on order already. Its my prototype run and have connectors as well. In another week or so the boards will get delivered. I will make an announcement for the group buy run when I am ready but want to make sure first I am not selling people junk.
