Help with brake upgrade ideas.
Thread Starter
Burning Brakes
Joined: Jun 2004
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Where can I find the "how to"? Is there a DIY somewhere to describe the whole project? I need to start planning for this so I have a project for the fall/winter!
Originally Posted by willfranklin
Ditto...and a "how to" to go with it! 
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From: New Jersey
Originally Posted by garrett376
A cheaper alternative that many people don't realize is that you can buy new, from the dealer, Big Black calipers from a 928 for about $600 for both calipers (they were about $247 each 2-3 years ago). Add new, factory 965 rotors for $144 a piece, and some caliper adapters ($300 new, 100 used if you can find some) and you've got a Big Brake setup for about half the price of most kits out there. Get some 993 rear calipers and remove the proportioning valve (or use a 60-bar turbo valve) and you'll have a nicely balanced, super braking car. The calipers aren't red, which I actually prefer 
Where are you getting this pricing? All the 928 suppliers sell the big blacks for about $550 each rotors range between $180 and $229 depending on cross drilled or solid (factory units) this does not include pads. I don't see why the big blacks should be that much cheaper than the big reds since they are basically the same caliper except for set up and color which ca easily be changed.
I was able to find used big reds and 993 rear NA calipers, new 94 turbo, RS rotors, adapters, pads and SS brake lines for under $1500 complete. I had to shop for a while but deals on used and new parts are available and I got the best deal on rotors by buying them individually instead of pairs. I picked up a single 94 turbo rotor new for $50 on ebay. These deals take time to find but worth it.
I will say you can scrub speed off much more smoothly with this upgrade than the stock 93 setup and they showed no signs of fade after a 3 day event and the car being used by 2 drivers so we used them for 24-20 min sessions (8 hours track time) with no issues. I don't think the stock units would have held up as well or we most likely would have had warped rotors after all the braking.
Thread Starter
Burning Brakes
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 762
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You don't happen to still have your parts list around, do you?
Originally Posted by cobalt
Where are you getting this pricing? All the 928 suppliers sell the big blacks for about $550 each rotors range between $180 and $229 depending on cross drilled or solid (factory units) this does not include pads. I don't see why the big blacks should be that much cheaper than the big reds since they are basically the same caliper except for set up and color which ca easily be changed.
I was able to find used big reds and 993 rear NA calipers, new 94 turbo, RS rotors, adapters, pads and SS brake lines for under $1500 complete. I had to shop for a while but deals on used and new parts are available and I got the best deal on rotors by buying them individually instead of pairs. I picked up a single 94 turbo rotor new for $50 on ebay. These deals take time to find but worth it.
I will say you can scrub speed off much more smoothly with this upgrade than the stock 93 setup and they showed no signs of fade after a 3 day event and the car being used by 2 drivers so we used them for 24-20 min sessions (8 hours track time) with no issues. I don't think the stock units would have held up as well or we most likely would have had warped rotors after all the braking.
I was able to find used big reds and 993 rear NA calipers, new 94 turbo, RS rotors, adapters, pads and SS brake lines for under $1500 complete. I had to shop for a while but deals on used and new parts are available and I got the best deal on rotors by buying them individually instead of pairs. I picked up a single 94 turbo rotor new for $50 on ebay. These deals take time to find but worth it.
I will say you can scrub speed off much more smoothly with this upgrade than the stock 93 setup and they showed no signs of fade after a 3 day event and the car being used by 2 drivers so we used them for 24-20 min sessions (8 hours track time) with no issues. I don't think the stock units would have held up as well or we most likely would have had warped rotors after all the braking.
Racer
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 376
Likes: 15
From: Silverthorne, Colorado
Just be careful that you consider all impacts that go along with a brake upgrade, e.g. If this is important to you, will larger calipers fit inside your space saver spare? Most forget to check this until you need to use it. Adrian's book also speaks to other issues regarding system wide impacts of changing parts of the system. These impacts vary depending on what system you are starting with, i.e, C2 or C4
Good luck
Good luck
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I will get my invoice when I return home in 5d to get part numbers for you all. Sunset Imports is where I bought my stuff. I don't know why it's so much cheaper either, but they are! Now, the only thing required is to swap the crossover lines and bleeder nipples, but that takes 5 minutes and one 11mm wrench. The 965 rotor for $144 is crossdrilled. I know that's the price since I ordered it 4 d ago!
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From: New Jersey
Originally Posted by garrett376
I will get my invoice when I return home in 5d to get part numbers for you all. Sunset Imports is where I bought my stuff. I don't know why it's so much cheaper either, but they are! Now, the only thing required is to swap the crossover lines and bleeder nipples, but that takes 5 minutes and one 11mm wrench. The 965 rotor for $144 is crossdrilled. I know that's the price since I ordered it 4 d ago!
These are definitely the big blacks used on the 93-95 GTS vs the medium S4's used on the GT's & S4's? Not much difference, the Medium S4 uses the 48 x132mm pad vs the 58 x 132mm pad otherwise everything else is the same. At that price I might just buy a spare set since I have 3 cars using the same caliper.
You have to love Sunset's pricing.
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Yes Anthony... they're the BIG ones!!!! (not the S4, but the BIG (993TT or 928GTS size)
As Anthony mentioned, if anyone doesn't want to wait for me to get my invoice for the part numbers, just call up Sunset Imports (800) 346-0182, and tell them you want 928 GTS calipers plus 965 (94 964 turbo) rotors. It took about 1 week for them to get the calipers in stock and 2 more days get them to me in California. I ordered the rotors last week and they had them in stock. By the way, the rotors never wear out!!! I have to replace my 3 year old rotors (been through 3 years of racing!!!) only because they cracks have started to reach adjacent holes. My pads are 3 years old too and are now at just below 50%. That's one big benefit of the huge brakes, they barely wear out!
As Anthony mentioned, if anyone doesn't want to wait for me to get my invoice for the part numbers, just call up Sunset Imports (800) 346-0182, and tell them you want 928 GTS calipers plus 965 (94 964 turbo) rotors. It took about 1 week for them to get the calipers in stock and 2 more days get them to me in California. I ordered the rotors last week and they had them in stock. By the way, the rotors never wear out!!! I have to replace my 3 year old rotors (been through 3 years of racing!!!) only because they cracks have started to reach adjacent holes. My pads are 3 years old too and are now at just below 50%. That's one big benefit of the huge brakes, they barely wear out!
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From: New Jersey
Originally Posted by garrett376
Yes Anthony... they're the BIG ones!!!! (not the S4, but the BIG (993TT or 928GTS size)
As Anthony mentioned, if anyone doesn't want to wait for me to get my invoice for the part numbers, just call up Sunset Imports (800) 346-0182, and tell them you want 928 GTS calipers plus 965 (94 964 turbo) rotors. It took about 1 week for them to get the calipers in stock and 2 more days get them to me in California. I ordered the rotors last week and they had them in stock. By the way, the rotors never wear out!!! I have to replace my 3 year old rotors (been through 3 years of racing!!!) only because they cracks have started to reach adjacent holes. My pads are 3 years old too and are now at just below 50%. That's one big benefit of the huge brakes, they barely wear out!
As Anthony mentioned, if anyone doesn't want to wait for me to get my invoice for the part numbers, just call up Sunset Imports (800) 346-0182, and tell them you want 928 GTS calipers plus 965 (94 964 turbo) rotors. It took about 1 week for them to get the calipers in stock and 2 more days get them to me in California. I ordered the rotors last week and they had them in stock. By the way, the rotors never wear out!!! I have to replace my 3 year old rotors (been through 3 years of racing!!!) only because they cracks have started to reach adjacent holes. My pads are 3 years old too and are now at just below 50%. That's one big benefit of the huge brakes, they barely wear out!
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From: Houston, Texas
Originally Posted by garrett376
I will get my invoice when I return home in 5d to get part numbers for you all. Sunset Imports is where I bought my stuff. I don't know why it's so much cheaper either, but they are! Now, the only thing required is to swap the crossover lines and bleeder nipples, but that takes 5 minutes and one 11mm wrench. The 965 rotor for $144 is crossdrilled. I know that's the price since I ordered it 4 d ago!
Are you home yet? Any chance you could post the part numbers?
Thanks,
Will
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Here are some parts #s and prices all are a few years old now
RoW951.352.041.91 964C2 RS rear discs (299mm) x2 ($213.00)
965.351.045.00 964T2 (93-94)front Brake Disc (322mm) x2($227.24)
993to964 Caliper Bracket x2 which depends on the calipers used, there are 3 types for the front
type 1, 125cm^2 pads, raised caliper
965.351.423.01 l/f caliper 965, 964RS ($405.39)
965.351.424.01 r/f caliper 965, 964RS ($405.39)
or
type 2, 151cm^2 pad
993.351.425.10 l/f caliper 965 3.6, 993tt aka Big Red ($405.39)
993.351.426.10 r/f caliper 965 3.6, 993tt aka Big Red ($416.10)
OR
type 3, 125cm^2 pad normal caliper
928.351.421.03 l/f 928S4 aka 993front w/ swapped bleeds and feeds ($512.09)
928.351.422.02 r/f 928S4 aka 993front w/ swapped bleeds and feeds ($512.09)
or
993.351.421.00 l/f 993 ($480.11)
993.351.422.00 r/f 993 ($480.11)
Summery;
Front:
993.351.045/046.00 - Brake disc - Carrera RS($251.65), 1 piece 322x32
993.351.045/046.10 - Brake disc - Turbo / C4S($175.00) 2 piece 322x32
993.351.425/426.10 - Caliper - Carrera RS / Turbo / C4S
Rear:
993.352.045/046.00 - Brake disc - Carrera RS / Turbo / C4S
993.352.425/426.80 - Caliper - Carrera RS
993.352.425/426.10 - Caliper - Turbo / C4S
RoW951.352.041.91 964C2 RS rear discs (299mm) x2 ($213.00)
965.351.045.00 964T2 (93-94)front Brake Disc (322mm) x2($227.24)
993to964 Caliper Bracket x2 which depends on the calipers used, there are 3 types for the front
type 1, 125cm^2 pads, raised caliper
965.351.423.01 l/f caliper 965, 964RS ($405.39)
965.351.424.01 r/f caliper 965, 964RS ($405.39)
or
type 2, 151cm^2 pad
993.351.425.10 l/f caliper 965 3.6, 993tt aka Big Red ($405.39)
993.351.426.10 r/f caliper 965 3.6, 993tt aka Big Red ($416.10)
OR
type 3, 125cm^2 pad normal caliper
928.351.421.03 l/f 928S4 aka 993front w/ swapped bleeds and feeds ($512.09)
928.351.422.02 r/f 928S4 aka 993front w/ swapped bleeds and feeds ($512.09)
or
993.351.421.00 l/f 993 ($480.11)
993.351.422.00 r/f 993 ($480.11)
Summery;
Front:
993.351.045/046.00 - Brake disc - Carrera RS($251.65), 1 piece 322x32
993.351.045/046.10 - Brake disc - Turbo / C4S($175.00) 2 piece 322x32
993.351.425/426.10 - Caliper - Carrera RS / Turbo / C4S
Rear:
993.352.045/046.00 - Brake disc - Carrera RS / Turbo / C4S
993.352.425/426.80 - Caliper - Carrera RS
993.352.425/426.10 - Caliper - Turbo / C4S
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I am not sure the of parts Bill wrote (since my part numbers are not there!), but here are all the Big Black Brake parts I used from my receipts from 5/2005 from the Porsche dealer:
calipers:
928-351-423-03 List $397.20 ; Net $238.30
928-351-424-03 List $397.20 ; Net $238.30
rotors:
965-351-045-00 List $197.92 ; Net $122.71 (My recent reciept from 7/07 is List $202.34 ; Net $144.27)
965-351-046-00 List $197.92 ; Net $122.71 (My recent reciept from 7/07 is List $202.34 ; Net of $144.27)
Caliper Adapters from FVD:
FVD 351 964 499 (x2) - $112.50 a piece
I can't find my stock brake pads (I use PFC97 on track), but you'll need new ones of those, too!
calipers:
928-351-423-03 List $397.20 ; Net $238.30
928-351-424-03 List $397.20 ; Net $238.30
rotors:
965-351-045-00 List $197.92 ; Net $122.71 (My recent reciept from 7/07 is List $202.34 ; Net $144.27)
965-351-046-00 List $197.92 ; Net $122.71 (My recent reciept from 7/07 is List $202.34 ; Net of $144.27)
Caliper Adapters from FVD:
FVD 351 964 499 (x2) - $112.50 a piece
I can't find my stock brake pads (I use PFC97 on track), but you'll need new ones of those, too!