Motec, educate me please...
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Racer
Joined: May 2005
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From: Easton, Maryland
Motec, educate me please...
Ok, I am still fuzzy about Motec and the benefits of changing the fuel management system on a 964. I mean, from what I read, some recommend this to be the best solution to give you the most horsepower gain in a 964 versus let say, adding a TPC supercharger. Either method isn't cheap. How much gain in horsepower and torque will you see from adding a Motec system? When you go with Motec, are you buying only one setup or are there options?. How much stress are you putting on the engine compared to a supercharger? Care to ballpark a price for a Motec system?
I did my share of reading here but I am still unclear about the whole setup.
Thanks...
I did my share of reading here but I am still unclear about the whole setup.
Thanks...
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From: Apex, NC
http://www.ninemeister.com/ has the best description of the process. Here in the seattle area Chris's or Forhal can do a motec conversion but you are looking at 10K minium. Plus to realize 350hp gains you need to add intake and head work (and bottom end)
400hp is achievable with a lot of work to the motor.
It really depends on what you are after... the best bang for the buck is a custom chip from steve (rennsport systems in OR) and an exhaust to match.
it can be a black hole if you go in open ended.....
400hp is achievable with a lot of work to the motor.
It really depends on what you are after... the best bang for the buck is a custom chip from steve (rennsport systems in OR) and an exhaust to match.
it can be a black hole if you go in open ended.....
Nordschleife Master
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 8,305
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From: Kingston, NY
A MoTeC ECU in and of itself will not gain you any substantial power over a factory ECU, or any other ECU for that matter. What it is, is an aftermarket ECU that is fully configurable and programmable via a laptop. It has 512k of data logging and wideband O2 capability. It is through these three features that you can optimize a given engine combination. When compared with a factory 964 ECU, the MoTeC benefits from much newer technology with more flexible tables, and allows the removal of the air flow meter which is an intake restriction. MoTeC provides reliability that other ECUs don't match up with and is widely recognized as a leader in performance aftermarket engine management as a benchmark.
Companies like 9M have put together an engine package and rather than working with a factory ECU that presents challenges in programming, limited to a few people who have written code to access the programming, have chosen a MoTeC ECU. It is the engien package that makes the power, and the ECU that allows them to exploit it.
Are there other ways to acomplish the same thing, obviously yes.
Companies like 9M have put together an engine package and rather than working with a factory ECU that presents challenges in programming, limited to a few people who have written code to access the programming, have chosen a MoTeC ECU. It is the engien package that makes the power, and the ECU that allows them to exploit it.
Are there other ways to acomplish the same thing, obviously yes.
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From: Cheshire, England
Originally Posted by ronone10
Ok, I am still fuzzy about Motec and the benefits of changing the fuel management system on a 964. I mean, from what I read, some recommend this to be the best solution to give you the most horsepower gain in a 964 versus let say, adding a TPC supercharger. Either method isn't cheap. How much gain in horsepower and torque will you see from adding a Motec system? When you go with Motec, are you buying only one setup or are there options?. How much stress are you putting on the engine compared to a supercharger? Care to ballpark a price for a Motec system?
I did my share of reading here but I am still unclear about the whole setup.
Thanks...
I did my share of reading here but I am still unclear about the whole setup.
Thanks...
Motec is just the ecu, it is what you can and do do with it that makes the difference. We remove the restrictive factory air flow meter/airbox, run Alpha-N control (throttle potentiometer vs rpm) with MAP correction & fit larger injectors. With this set up we usually see around 30hp gains over the best tuned equivalent Motronic (standard) engines (see graph). We charge a fixed price of £3495 (+taxes) for the 9m conversion fitted and mapped.
The installation purchased will very from installer to installer, all I can say is be wary of a Motec installer who has no Porsche experience and does not recommend changing the fuel injectors and intake system....
Any naturally aspirated engine will be a lot less stressed than the same hp supercharged engine, simply because it is not developing extra power to drive the supercharger to end up at the same result. N/A engines also do not have air intake temperature issues either.
The major disadvantage with Motec is that it does not run an integral knock control system and therefore you need to ensure that you always run the engine on the fuel it was mapped for. We are looking at having a Motronic derived stand-alone knock control system designed to use in conjunction with Motec and other ecus, but in the meantime there are knock warning systems already available which provide an effective warning light display.
Can't say any more that has not already been said and I'm sure everyone else feels likewise...
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Three Wheelin'
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 1,779
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From: Halifax, Nova Scotia , Canada
Colin,
I promise that this will be the last I say on this !
The 964 M2.1 DME is an old system running a Flap Air flow meter. Not a huge deficeit but these days , not ideal . The 964 runs injectors that are just adequate in flow size for standard bhp ,so represent an issue .
The 993 system M2.1.1 was moved up to a Hot Film air flow measurement + throttle pot acceleration . Air flow is more than adequately covered .
( A slightly larger Air mass unit is used on the 993tt ! )
The 993 injectors are ok for flow rate but could , maybe take a little more.
Both M2.1 and M2.1.1 both have proper knock control systems and O2 part load/idle fuel control . This means that a correctly mapped system has no need for repetive fuelling adjustment like Motec and other throttle pot driven systems.
From all these factors I believe that a 993 M2.1.1 sytem is the best DME / Motec update on a 964 .
Unfortunately , to go with this is a tuner who can install the system and has access to DME calibration .
I think that is why the Motec ,etc sytems , which are so much easier for the average tuner ( THIS DOES NOT INCLUDE COLIN !!! )come across as a good choice .
Like all this stuff , the factors involved can be argued / debated for ever !
Its maybe worth looking around and checking prices/difficulty to make a decision.
My 964 went 993 etc many years ago so perhaps I am biased !!!!
( Oh , and I used to remap all the Porsche range on a daily basis , including 959/962 !! - but not now !!!!!!! )
Geoff
----------------------------------------------------------------
KS400200,the oldest 964 on Rennlist,unless you know differently !
I promise that this will be the last I say on this !
The 964 M2.1 DME is an old system running a Flap Air flow meter. Not a huge deficeit but these days , not ideal . The 964 runs injectors that are just adequate in flow size for standard bhp ,so represent an issue .
The 993 system M2.1.1 was moved up to a Hot Film air flow measurement + throttle pot acceleration . Air flow is more than adequately covered .
( A slightly larger Air mass unit is used on the 993tt ! )
The 993 injectors are ok for flow rate but could , maybe take a little more.
Both M2.1 and M2.1.1 both have proper knock control systems and O2 part load/idle fuel control . This means that a correctly mapped system has no need for repetive fuelling adjustment like Motec and other throttle pot driven systems.
From all these factors I believe that a 993 M2.1.1 sytem is the best DME / Motec update on a 964 .
Unfortunately , to go with this is a tuner who can install the system and has access to DME calibration .
I think that is why the Motec ,etc sytems , which are so much easier for the average tuner ( THIS DOES NOT INCLUDE COLIN !!! )come across as a good choice .
Like all this stuff , the factors involved can be argued / debated for ever !
Its maybe worth looking around and checking prices/difficulty to make a decision.
My 964 went 993 etc many years ago so perhaps I am biased !!!!
( Oh , and I used to remap all the Porsche range on a daily basis , including 959/962 !! - but not now !!!!!!! )
Geoff
----------------------------------------------------------------
KS400200,the oldest 964 on Rennlist,unless you know differently !
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Joined: Oct 2002
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From: Cheshire, England
Originally Posted by Superunknown
Colin,
Is it true that you are no longer doing Motronic remaps for the 964?
Is it true that you are no longer doing Motronic remaps for the 964?
The only other aspect I forgot to mention is that Motec comes with narrow band O2 control like the Motronic ecu, however it also has full wide band control and datalogging available as an upgrade option.
