deoxford

IF you see the link below you can see that I have had the cams redone on this car once, now it appears that they are in bad shape again.
So I dropped the car @ the shop today , and this is what they said.
They said that they are not surprised that it did it again.
They told the guy I bought the car from that they thought the case needed to be split to get the all the sealant that is plugging the oil ports.
He said that he fixed the right side and then he discovered that it was plugged on the left side , that is why he needed to change both sides out.
They told the guy I bought it from that the case really need to be split to make sure the issue is fixed, but he said to just fix the broken parts. I quess we will see what happens from here.

If they come up with some crazy number can I open the case to clean it my self
if I don't have to do any other repair work?
Saying I don't have to replace anything?
I asking is this a DIY job if it cost to much?

Also how much should it cost to open the case and clean it any ideas?
Thanks
Derek



https://rennlist.com/forums/964-forum/313879-could-it-be-happening-again-help.html

C4Russ

The simple answer is of course you can split the case yourself. Every case that gets split gets done by a person. No reason you cannot do so yourself.

Do you have access to good working conditions such as a garage, jack stands, hand tools, engine stand, sufficient work space, both bench and storage? Can you stay organized? Read a caliper? Be patient?

If you are inclined and like to work on cars, this could be a nice challenge. If working on cars or engines isn't enjoyable, perhaps this is a good time to consider professional help. There are many good books on rebuilding the Porsche motor. Go find one and read the assembly instructions as this is what you'll be doing.

deoxford

I do have a garage and tools , but I have never worked on one of these new engines
I did restore my 72 , but I didn't have to open the case on the engine.
What special tools would I need, and what book should I get ?

This is my 72
http://www.356-911.com/911restogalle...koxford911.htm

deoxford

Read a caliper....I missed that before, tell me more

C4Russ

First. Disclosure. I've not done this. I am not an expert at all. Perhaps I'm too optimistic, hopefully one who has done this will chime in soon to set the record straight if I'm leading you down the wrong path.

I've worked on many cars and have done all the maint and simple repairs on my car and I would not hesitate to crack the case or do a rebuild. A book on rebuilding will tell you what tools you'll need and there are many posts you can search for here and at Pelican that will go through the whole process and list out many of the tools and resources those individuals used.

Calipers to measure components for wear. It would be silly to tear apart an engine and put back worn parts. You'll need to confirm that parts are in good condition, replace or recondition if needed. You're going in deep, go all the way. If you have bearings or mating surfaces that need work, may as do so now. If you do all this yourself, you'll save thousands in labor costs. That money is wisely spent on parts where needed.

sundog

If you are going to split the case, then there are many components that you will need to replace, seals, case nuts and washers, flywheel bolts, etc. There are a number of "special tools" that you will need.

If you are going to go to all that trouble, I'd opt to do the complete job. If they say that there is sealant in the oil passages, then you really don't know where else it has gone, crank, piston squirters, case journals...

It is not an easy job, but it can be done with patience, attention to detail, and the right resources. How do I know, just finished putting my case back together this weekend!

axl911

I think you need to do more than just splitting the case and cleaning thing. If there are bits of sealants plugging the oil ports, you need to completely clean and flush all the oil passages, oil lines, AND oil cooler in front. What may have hapenned in your case is that tiny bits of sealants are blocking the oil quirters in the camshaft housing. This blocked oil from getting to the cam/rockers, and making them wear away.

axl911

Hit the reply too soon. But if you don't flush and clean out all these sealant bits in the oiling system, it will just clog the oil passages/squriters again and causing the same problem. I think the camshaft housing quirters are one of the smallest point in the oiling system, so any particles would get trapped here and clog it up. Unfortunately, the squirters provide lubrication to the camshaft and rockers.

Pelican Parts 911 technical and engine rebuild sections have many posts regarding this.

springer3

You have a contamination situation, and I agree with AXL 911 that a meticulous cleaning is in order. A bore brush needs to be run down every oil passage along with a solvent flush. The oil cooler circuit outside the engine needs to be taken apart and cleaned. If you needed to take the car to a shop to drop the engine, you probably need professional help to fix the problem. The previous owner or his mechanic should pay for all of this. There is no excuse for leaving enough debris to clog up a lubrication system. The repair manuals warn about the danger of sealants getting into oil passages.

Geoffrey

I'm not sure what sealant he is talking about, and what ports he is suggesting are plugged. If the case was sealed using the proper sealant - Loctite 574 then there should not be any sealant in the case. 574 drys with the absence of air, so any that squeezes out goes into the case and is diluted by oil and washed away with the first oil change. The cam towers to heads are sealed with the same Loctite 574. If some other sealant was used, ignore the above.

What oil ports is he talking about? There is an oil spray bar in the center of the cam tower than should have been removed and cleaned with the first cam change since it oils the cam to rocker arm followers.

If welded cams were used, I'm not surprised that this happened because they have a habit of not wearing correctly. Unless you got very lucky, I'd recommend rebuilding the engine since metal will have gone through the engine.

If you have never rebuilt an engine, a 911 engine is probably not a choice for your first one.

Dad911

You have only had the car for a month, and bought it from a dealer, correct? He has not disclosed internal engine problems, I would think you have legal recourse. You are probably looking at a $5000+ repair bill to split the case.

axl911

Geoffrey's right. I was referring to the cam tower oil spray bar. Some reason, I was thinking of the piston squirters. The cam tower oil spray bar does provide lubrication to the camshaft.

Adrian

Derek,
I think you need to clear some things up. There are three threads started by yourself about this saga starting with your trip to Atlanta, but it is not clear where and from whom you bought the car from and the conditions under which it was purchased. You say dealer, but I get the impression from other comments you have made that it might have been private.
You are now thinking of going DIY after just a month since the purchase which does not make sense.
So was the 964 purchased from a dealer and do you have a valid warranty?
If you have warranty take it back from whence you purchased it and tell them to fix it.
If you do not have warranty then you have a problem. I am afraid from all your posts on these threads I cannot work out what your actual post-purchase situation is.
Is the shop you keep dropping the car off at, the dealer's shop or somebody he has approved? Who is paying? Do you have anything in writing?
Ciao,
Adrian.

Indycam

"Saying I don't have to replace anything?"
You will need to replace lots of parts .

"I asking is this a DIY job if it cost to much?"
If you can do all that to a 72 , you can do a motor .
You will need to learn a bunch and buy a bunch , but if you really want to , you can .

"Also how much should it cost to open the case and clean it any ideas?"
They should do it for free . The state people who oversee repair shops should be informed of this .
The shop took money for a job that they knew would not be a real repair , and then did not tell the owner / driver of this fact . They should be in trouble for doing this .

If for some reason you do the repair yourself - $10,000. Time labor parts . If you include down time on the car , even more .

chancecasey

Yeah, I was going to say $10K minimum for the engine rebuild alone - at least out here that's *roughly* the going rate, incl. parts and labor. I did mine myself and easily spent $5K on machining, parts, and special tools - and I only had one valve that needed replacing. Throw in another few thousand for taking out the entire oil system, cleaning it out, reinstalling w/ new hoses/fittings.

If you tackle this yourself, which it sounds like you can do, be prepared for a VERY long project. I probably averaged 10 hours a week and it took me almost a year to complete my rebuild.