Supercharge,turbocharge, or build up a 964 engine for 400+ HP?
08-20-2006, 10:56 AM
#46
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Sorry Eggplant, Autocar quoted the 997TT tank capacity at 18 gallons and I was not very accurate with my mental arithmetic (for once) but I have no problem with a bit of pedantic-ery.
Back to the plot.....
Given the starting point that ZIMWPH has with the 3.8 litre I would be looking at Motec/heads/cams as the first "pure" option for more hp unless it is a road only car in which case the TPC kit will do the business.
The TPC kit is very good for road car applications and I would recommend fitting it "as delivered" rather than considering further modifications like Motec since the 7th injector method contributes to cooling of the intake charge as well as supporting the extra power. I have not fitted a kit in the UK with an intercooler yet so I have no data available to support the 40hp claim, but it seems reasonable given results I have seen on other cars. Provided that you can have the car custom mapped on the Unichip afterwards, I would recommend fitting 100cell cats as it will allow the extra exhaust gas to clear the cylinders and the engine run cooler. However, even with an intercooler I would not recommend the TPC kit for extensive track use (as in TT's case) because heat is an issue.
Converting a 964 to turbo makes little financial sense as you can readily buy a 965, thereafter a set of headers, turbo, 1.0 bar boost & pair of 964 cams will easily see you over 400bhp and improved response. That said I think that you will need to aim for more than 400bhp, mainly to compensate for the extra lard of the turbo bodied cars but also to recover some of the lost time spent in gas stations.....
Back to the plot.....
Given the starting point that ZIMWPH has with the 3.8 litre I would be looking at Motec/heads/cams as the first "pure" option for more hp unless it is a road only car in which case the TPC kit will do the business.
The TPC kit is very good for road car applications and I would recommend fitting it "as delivered" rather than considering further modifications like Motec since the 7th injector method contributes to cooling of the intake charge as well as supporting the extra power. I have not fitted a kit in the UK with an intercooler yet so I have no data available to support the 40hp claim, but it seems reasonable given results I have seen on other cars. Provided that you can have the car custom mapped on the Unichip afterwards, I would recommend fitting 100cell cats as it will allow the extra exhaust gas to clear the cylinders and the engine run cooler. However, even with an intercooler I would not recommend the TPC kit for extensive track use (as in TT's case) because heat is an issue.
Converting a 964 to turbo makes little financial sense as you can readily buy a 965, thereafter a set of headers, turbo, 1.0 bar boost & pair of 964 cams will easily see you over 400bhp and improved response. That said I think that you will need to aim for more than 400bhp, mainly to compensate for the extra lard of the turbo bodied cars but also to recover some of the lost time spent in gas stations.....
08-20-2006, 12:48 PM
#49
Nordschleife Master
I did convert a 964 to a TPC kit and used MoTeC without the 7th injector. Even intercooled, modified compression ratio (9:1) and 7psi of boost I could not keep the intake air temps below 160F, running 11.4:1 AFR. The 7th injector cools the intake which is required since the supercharger is a large heat sink on top of the engine.
When converted back to motronics with the 7th injector, the engine made approximately 26rwhp more with the intercooler AND larger pully. The power gain came from the increased pully size which the intercooler allowed. Simply adding an intercooler will not net you a noticable power gain by itself.
When converted back to motronics with the 7th injector, the engine made approximately 26rwhp more with the intercooler AND larger pully. The power gain came from the increased pully size which the intercooler allowed. Simply adding an intercooler will not net you a noticable power gain by itself.
08-22-2006, 02:23 AM
#52
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Hi Colin,
When you are ready to deliver 350hp from a NA engine to the North American continent, I am ready. Being from the midwest, I'd prefer to go through the closest Motec tuner(Chicago area). However, if that is not an option then I would entrust the work to Geoffrey.
Noah
When you are ready to deliver 350hp from a NA engine to the North American continent, I am ready. Being from the midwest, I'd prefer to go through the closest Motec tuner(Chicago area). However, if that is not an option then I would entrust the work to Geoffrey.
Noah
Last edited by N51; 08-22-2006 at 08:01 AM.
08-23-2006, 02:27 AM
#55
Rennlist Member
just want to add that I have been enjoying my TPC SC car. It is very strong, good low-end grunt, great fun to drive. Car was built apporx 20K miles ago, does not leak a drop on my garage floor. It is the first SC car I have ever owned. I really liked my 951 but hated the lack of low-end power. After owning a VW R32, and my current Audi S4 V8, I realized I prefer the low end grunt.
I drove a few 993's and 996's prior to purchase (I personally didn't like the 996 much). This car is every bit as fast or faster. I plan to dyno locally as there is an AWD dyno near by.
I hope to consider getting the intercooler they offer in the future but need to add some upgrades first (suspension, exhaust).
I drove a few 993's and 996's prior to purchase (I personally didn't like the 996 much). This car is every bit as fast or faster. I plan to dyno locally as there is an AWD dyno near by.
I hope to consider getting the intercooler they offer in the future but need to add some upgrades first (suspension, exhaust).
08-23-2006, 04:24 PM
#56
Nordschleife Master
If money is no object .....
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/articl...type=printable
Watch the vid for some low end grunt .
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/articl...type=printable
Watch the vid for some low end grunt .
08-24-2006, 01:13 AM
#59
Burning Brakes
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Small block Chevy. 450hp N/A, <$10K, lighter than a Porche turbo with better throttle response, way cheaper to operate. For that cash you could probably get as much as 600HP doing a custom turbo job on a N/A 3.6 depending on your ability to stomach destruction. If I didn't live in CA where swapping engines is illegal in a 1990 car, I might well have gone the Chevy route instead of my stock rebuild. Some of those conversions give me a major boner - what you save in engine you can spend beefing up the rest of the car (wheels, fenders, brakes, suspension) for a true hot rod (with German style).
Originally Posted by N51
Hi Colin,
When you are ready to deliver 350hp from a NA engine to the North American continent, I am ready. Being from the midwest, I'd prefer to go through the closest Motec tuner(Chicago area). However, if that is not an option then I would entrust the work to Geoffrey.
Noah
When you are ready to deliver 350hp from a NA engine to the North American continent, I am ready. Being from the midwest, I'd prefer to go through the closest Motec tuner(Chicago area). However, if that is not an option then I would entrust the work to Geoffrey.
Noah
