Euromagination

I just want to know who cast the lone vote for the M3...

Eggplant Cab

It really boils down to how you feel in either cars. Obviously the practical side is not being considered.
And it is a little obvious what the answer will in a 964 forum. Post in a E30 M3 forum and you'll find the exact opposite.
Sit in both and drive them. For myself, I tend to look at driver position/ergonomics then driving dynamics. You can find idiosyncracies with both cars so choose the one which give you more pleasure of ownership. And that is an individual thing.

SleepRM3

Ron, you have a very nice car. Personally I would NOT sell the 964 for an E30 M3. Yes the E30 M3 is a light car, but it's very much a momentum car that understeers a bit (without enough power to rotate the rear end). I have an E36 M3/4-door. It's a heavier car at 3175 lbs (compared with an E30 M3 at 2700 lbs), but the E36 M3 ('96-'99) is a much nicer car, and the S52 BMW 3.2-L inline is torquey at the midrange rpm (2800 to 4500). My 1997 M3 sedan has a Dinan airbox intake/exhaust with Conforti ECU reflash with an advertised 260 flywheel hp (up 20 hp from stock). It feels quick, but through the turns at Mid-Ohio or Putnam Park, the E36 M3/4-dr feels more like piloting a boat than a sports car (my previous sports car was a 2800-lb 1993 Type FD Mazda Rx7 R1 Twin Turbo modded to 320 rwhp, 12 psi boost from Japanese-spec FD sequential twins).

Ironically, I'm shopping for a Porsche 911. I have not discerned which generation of 911 I'm going to buy. My first thought was to go with a '99 996 (having to unload the E36 M3/4-door), but I really, really like my BMW--so I'm looking at the G50 '87 to '89 911s or the early ('90-'92) 964s so I can have both the BMW AND Porsche. The G50 asking prices have been higher than I'd expected (looking for $15K to $18K cars, but most owners are asking $22K to $25K for nice G50s). My most recent prospective purchase has been a 1990 964 that looks similar to your old tan interior car. https://rennlist.com/forums/964-forum/289972-1990-964-coupe.html The owner has prepared his car for PCA DE (which works for me, as I'm into DEs as a PCA instructor). His is a 911 C2 (yours is a C4). I learned a lot from your Cardomain site. I hadn't read about the fuel smell?!

Anyhow, I say keep the 964, and enjoy the hard work and money you've put into your baby. The E30 M3, although an interesting car, would not be an equitable purchase if you have to unload your 964 for the E30 M3.

TR6

Yes, the M Coupe handles better than the M Roadster. I have both a 964 (RS America) and a BMW Z3M Coupe (S52). The M Coupe has gobs of low end torque and can light up the rear tires at will. I have been driving my RSA for the past few weeks exclusively since I bought it and had just about convinced myself that the RSA was just as fast off the line as my M Coupe. But then I drove the M Coupe the other night for the first time in several weeks. I was surprised that I had forgotten how strong the M Coupe is off the line. The M Coupe is a muscle car. Pure and simple. But I think my RSA could take the M Coupe on the track where cornering, braking, etc are more critical.

Now the original question was an E30 M3 vs keeping the 964. I'd keep the 964. If nothing else, its probably a better investment in the long run in terms of appreciation. I don't think the E30 M3s are going to fare as well in long term value than the 964s. Just my opinion of course. Also, the 964 is a sports car. The E30 is, well, a sedan.

ps. Just couldn't resist any excuse to include a photo of both of them.

Chris M.

WTF? I thought your 964 just got supercharged? Do you suddenly need a 4 door sedan?

c

puma1824

Believe it or not the engine is still being rebuilt...and will make FINAL decision once it gets closer to finishing the rebuild. So in the meantime I've been considering other options (happens when you wait for awhile).

Smokin

Puma... I thought you just got a supercharger installed???

puma1824

Not yet...engine still being rebuilt. Once the engine work is done the supercharger will go in. That's why there was never pics posted. Once the supercharger install begins (if I decide to keep) I'll definitely post pics. If I decide to sell then I would probably not do the SC and sell stock. Unfortunately the engine's not at that stage yet...almost.

JM993

You might be sorry if you sell the 964 for an E30 M3. I recent restored (and sold) an E30 M3 restored to EVOIII specs. Even in 2.5 form (240hp), the S14 engine in the E30 M3 was generally annoying. There is no comparison to the 3.6 in your 964. The S14 is boomy, buzzy, and generally difficult to live with. The 3.6 makes glorious sounds and is extremely tractable. Also, you will find the shifter in your 964 far superior to the one in the E30 M3. Finally, BMW brakes are.......BMW brakes. Cheap floating calipers are no substitute for proper 4 piston caliper Porsche brakes.

Having said all that, I still enjoyed my car while I had it. The E30 chassis is brilliant - the best of all BMWs IMHO. And the car is really easy to drive fast. But in the end, for the money I rather have a 964 or a Boxster S (not to mention my 993 which is not that much more expensive). I substituted my an E30 325is for my M3. IMHO this is by far the BEST all around car BMW has ever made. Super durable and with the right suspension and steering rack, it's handling is nearly the equal of the M3. Plus you get a lovely M20 6 cylinder with the deal. The best part is they are so cheap, you shouldn't need to sell the 964 to get one.

Cheers

Eggplant Cab

I've always liked the Z3 M coupe but never got round to getting one since my brother in law had one. But I do have a german friend who drives his on the Ring and he gets in consistently under 9mins in his runs. And his is bone stock except for upgraded brake pads and race compound tires. I found the M coupe to be nimble and if you ease on the throttle, the tail could be kept in check and the torque can do its thing.
The steering on the 964 has more feel. Against my C2 anyhow, I actually found the 964 easier to drive at the limit than the M coupe.
I always thought the chasis of the E30 M3 to be a powerhouse. Sure the engine is a buzzy 4 cycl with very little low end. But boy was it fun to flick it around twisties.

zimpwh

I had a MZ3 before I bought my 964. Modded it with all the suspension goodies from TCK Racing, had the rear diff problem corrected, and was about to supercharge it with a Eurosport Supercharger and another 10K in goodies inc. transmission/clutch, diff, alum rad with oil cooler, and much, much more. Heath issues forced sale of the car before the supercharger mod was completed. When I left the hospital, I bought a modded 964(ROW height with RS Sways/ Bilsteins, 3.8 engine, fabspeed header system, etc) and have never looked back. The cars are totally different...both fun. Drive both and compare, but to my taste the 964 is a true sports car and handles much better...the MZ3 was a tad bit faster, and would have been a world beater with the supercharger, but even with the suspension mods it did not come close to the 964 in the curves...so I guess it depends on your tastes and the roads you travel.

jeff522

My best friend is a BMW guy. He has driven them for years, and is on his second M3 in a row. He finds the M3 to be a much better car than MZ3. He calls it a POS. FWIW, they are very different cars, BMW and Porsche. It all is up to what you want in a car. For the pure pleasure of driving, the 964 is the best I have ever driven. One of the nice things about it is the lack of electronic nannies it has. The 964 is a car you get to drive. Once you start adding all the stability controols and so on it removes you from the controll of the car. Some of the driving aids will make you look better as a driver, but as you become more dependent on the systems your skills probly lessen. Besides the 964 looks way better.

TR6

I'd be curious to know the definition of "better". Perhaps it would be more accurate to say it meets his needs better? Stock M3's are too heavy to call sports cars. No doubt they are fast, but its a luxury performance sedan. Sorry. The Z3M is a sports car. The current generation M3 is a compromise for someone that has to have a back seat for the kiddies or their law firm clients and a trunk big enough for their golf clubs. Some people also want the more luxurious interior, extra soundproofing, and the extra electronic gadgets of the M3 over the MZ3. I hear that comment often on the BMW forum when people are trying to decide which to buy. The MZ3 was a very spartan car compared to the M3. It should be, its a sports car. To be honest, these two rarely even compete for the same buyer. They appeal to different personalities. Now if I could afford both a Z3M Coupe AND an M3 for fetching the groceries and kids, that would be great!

On a related note, I caught hell on the BMW forum some time back (before I ever bought a Porsche) for making the statement that the difference between BMW and Porsche is that BMW primarily makes luxury sedans and also happens to also make a sports car. Porsche makes sports cars. Period. (Conveniently forgetting about that SUV monstrosity for the moment!)
No argument here at all!

Eggplant Cab

I'd say the M3 is definitely a sports car but a sedan. The coupe and roadster (M) are 2 seat sports car. The E30 is obviously a race bred car too.
I love the look of the E30 M3 and I love my 964 Cab. It's all relative and we'll probably never agree except to disagree.
What I really want is the VW ecoracer they showed. Now that's a sports car with an eco side!

puma1824

Can you believe I'd still like more opinions