puma1824

Am I crazy for thinking about selling my 964 and getting a BMW e30 M3? I've always loved the first gen BMW M3s and have seriously considered selling my 964 and purchasing one. I'd love to have both but I unfortunately I can't.

Any e30 M3 / 963 owners out there have any experience? Would also like to know what the rest of you guys think.

BTW either car would NOT be a daily driver.

Geoffrey

I have done a lot of work with e30M3 race cars. The US spec car has an anemic 2.3l engine (192hp)that is rough and buzzy and begging for more power. The Euro engine is a 2.5l with the best euro car/engine being the EVO III (238hp), though they are still buzzy and begging for more power. I have a friend with the EVO III and it is an interesting car, looks great with the fat fenders but driving it is uninspiring from an engine perspective. It has little torque and the transmission needs shorter gears which are not available. The US box is even worse. The car handles very nicely and you can slide and recover the car easily. It feels light. It's a nice car, but I think you'd miss the torque and 50+hp of the 964.

There is a picture of a modified Group A type e30M3 on my website as well as a video of it on the dyno.

Heirsh

I looked at z3 m's, m3's, and 911's when i was looking for fun. The 01+ m3's were too expensive so i was looking at a z3 or a 911. I think i would have been happy with either, but I still would have wanted a porsche having the bmw. I wouldnt mind having a z3 still, but I dont want one now. If that makes any sense. Sometimes I get a little bummed about the work I put into my car, but taking it out on the road erases all those second guesses.

Wachuko

That is the problem of having just one car... go out and rent a car... drive something else for a few days. It will restore your appreciation for driving the 964...

DaveK

I was walking towards the front of my car at the weekend from about 500 yards away. As I got close to it, I thought : "Damn, that's a good looking car".

Bet you wouldn't think that with an M3 (although I realise that's not supposed to be the reason we all have 964s.....).

C4Russ

To me, very few cars have the driver's appeal of a 911. The M3 is a nice car and I'm sure that it has it's own nuances that make the car compelling.

I had looked at several M3's 4-5 years back. I was about to pull the trigger on a very nice example and realized that I was going to buy a boy racer and just couldn't do it. I know it's a nice car but I just didn't want to become 'one of those'.

I actually look for reasons to take the Porsche for a drive. The car just begs to be driven and due to it's nature, panache, handing and torque; it's the best fun to drive car I've ever owned. I have to agree with Geoffrey that you'd miss the grunt and snappy acceleration. I've allowed a couple of auto loving freinds drive the 964 and both have commented on strong the motor feels and what fun it is to run through the gears. One of these guys drives an 06 MB CLS 63 AMG, which is a seriously fast 4 door car that eats most 911s for lunch.

Hildy911

Not as fast, frequent, tricky valve adjustments, and last but not least-four cylinders. Nice cars, but no Porsche. I'm in the BMWCCA and have had numerous BMWs, but not that one. Why? Because for many thousands less you can have an E30 6 cyl that with easy modifications will outrun the M3. Why don't I have a BMW anymore? Because much of the BMW related conversations were how they could keep up with a 911. Mostly unfulfilled bragging.

andrew911

the early M3's have their own cult following - they are good looking cars in my opinion, and are probably fun to drive HOWEVER, they are also expensive to maintain (I'd think a good amount more than the average 964, and much more than the average 1989 and prior 911). A higher % of them have high mileage than porsches of the era, and while they are probably robust cars (when properly maintained), I'd rather drive a porsche with over 100K miles than an M3, which had a high strung 4-cylinder. I'd love to have one, but no way would I take one over a 911.

stuart1997

The Z3M looks a good car and cheap to buy,the UK ones develop 320BHP i think.... anyone owned driven one?

Heirsh

The z3m with that much power, I think, was only offered in 01 in the states. They discontinued the series here in 02 (again i think). its been awhile since I did the research. I wanted one of those 01's because I felt it would be something special.

robmug

I've had an E30 M3 and it was a wonderful car. Real handling brilliance - making even me look like a gifted driver!

Lacks the grunt, power and sheer 'weight' of the 964. Felt fragile in comparison.

I'd have another in a heartbeat - but it would be as well as the 964, not instead of...

Re the engine - yes, the 2.3 is a buzzy unit, but pretty much indestructable and the car actually doesn't need more power - it all seems to work nicelt, and 215bhp isn't too bad. The 2.5 in road trim doesn't feel any different.

Thaddeus

You don't want to keep that ratty old 964. Youy'd look good in a BMW! You should sell that 964 to some sucker, even though you'll have to unload it at a deep discount... I guess I could see my way clear to take it off your hands, even though they're a drug on the market... How does 15K sound?

That's right! Sell it to me! You don't want it anymore!

Eggplant Cab

My first car in college was an E30 M3. Was a salvage title (stolen). I rebuilt it to almost eurospec (except for engine) and joined a few enduro race events with it. I have to say that I really miss that car. The 4 pot was a typical euro spec car, loving the revs and the handling was sublime and very progressive. Driver position is better than the 964 or any other 911 really. I'd probably have it today if my enduro partner didn't test it against a wall in Phoenix. I thought of getting another one but by then I wanted driving al fresco, so I bought my first Porsche 964, Targa 1990.
Stuart, the M roadster is a wonderful car to drive and at the limit,it can be a handful. I believe it's more an american car than a german car in car dynamics. Lots of grunt torque and tail happy slides to keep the smile on your face even if you're behind bars style. I think the M coupe of the same year is actually a better handling car with the solid roof. And it still looks great to me.

Euromagination

The E30 M3's are great, but I don't think they really compare to the 964. A nice E36 M3, maybe... But that's even pushing it if you ask me. I really love M3's too and almost picked one up instead of my 964 and instead of my Evo. Seems like every car I "almost get" is an M3. LOL! But I digress...

I've ridden and driven an E30 M3 a couple times and to be honest, I like to compare it to my Evo VIII. If you've ever driven or ridden in an Evo VIII you'll see that they drive similarly (though the Evo is a little more sharp), they both have buzzy motors, simliar-looking blistered fenders, similar wheelbases, et cetera... The only problem is that the Evo has ~100 hp more than that E30 when both cars are in stock form. However, I think Evo weighs about 300 pounds more so it naturally requires more power to go fast, but it also has AWD... Also, the buddy of mine who had that E30 M3 was usually found in his garage complaining about some new electrical problem with that car, which I've heard can be common when them.

I've always liked the E30 for its clean boxy looks, but these days I'm a lot more impressed with other cars (old and new) and recently the E30 has unfortunately paled in comparison to them. The E30 M3 was/is a special car, but they're not nearly as special as a 964 if you see one rolling down the street. And the performance just isn't there either (as has been mentioned here and above), so why switch?
...Unless there's just something "not on paper" about the E30 M3 that you just really like, then by all meas I say go for it... Buy it, own it for a little while, then buy another 964.

I'm in the middle of wanting to play musical cars in my garage as well, so I know what you're going through right now. It's tough...

Take it easy,
Harry

puma1824

Sorry 15K prolly too low since the engine was/is just rebuilt and the interior is practically brand new!

Looks like the overall response is to keep it...so I really need to think about it before doing anything drastic.

Keep those comments going