boze_man

def not a tick-tick tick-tick...which would be valves right??

will get the stethoscope...good idea

sounds like piston slap in a small 2 stroke motor...jangle, clang...anyone know what i am talking about??

and Jason...love the avatar...i am sure we can fix it, your dad is a tv repairman right? he has an ultimate set of tools......

JONES199

I had similar situation; was directed towards loose shields or old catalitic converter. Found some loose bolts and the problem is a lot better.

BlackWidow964

[QUOTE=
That is the normal gearbox & shift rod sound that you hear with a LWF and one of the reasons why Porsche will only use dual-mass flywheels on their street cars.[/QUOTE]

Thanks Jason - that puts my heart at ease.. Like I said in an earlier post - I'd sure hate to pull the motor only to find nothing apparently wrong.

Dave

f11

I've included a link to a 1.5MB 1:31 min:sec .wav file of the jangley noise I'm trying to describe:

Rod's 964 Cold Start Jangle Noise (1.5MB WAV)

Sorry for the size - I wanted to retain as much original fidelity as I managed to capture using a teeny tiny digital recorder. It starts out with 46 seconds from cold-start, followed by 30 seconds of just-after cold-start idling, and ending with about 15 seconds of 1-minute-after-cold-start idling. You might have to increase your player's treble a bit to hear it clearly in some parts, but in others the jangling is quite apparent, even to my high-end-hearing-loss ears.

Thanks for any opinions or suggestions that come from listening to it. Is this the sound of a timing chain?

Rod

CraigC

Its hard for me to make out the noise but Ive ridden way to many miles on motorcycles. Did you try looking for scrape marks in your fan shroud? It sounded kind of like the fan hitting the shroud to me but its hard to tell.

Heirsh

I did not hear the noise I hear in mine that I think is the chain. Sorry, I can't be more help.

boze_man

hey rod...we got the some jangle...to those who dont recognize it is the chatter, clanging, rattling, up high above the engine noise....unless u know wht it sounds like it is drown out by the engine...

thanks again rod

check out the buzzsaw thread...jason linked a couple threads to something similar...
https://rennlist.com/forums/showthre...4&page=1&pp=15
https://rennlist.com/forums/964-forum/286623-chain-tensioner.html#post3234280

boze_man

i noticed last nite that the "noise" is still present when i shift between gears and the motor is low rpms (ie motor sound doesnt drown out the "noise") and motor is under load, but if i take out of gear and rev it i dont hear it...i also hear it at idel when i cold start...very odd

warmfuzzies

That WAV file sounds like the main fan/alternator to me, scrapping on the housing. it doesn't sound like the chain tensioners, I'd expect more jingles...if that makes any sense, if teh tensioner is loos then as the cam rotates it should have periods of looseness and tightness, it should therefore change pitch, I don't believe this one does.

my two cents.

Kevin/

boze_man

thanks for the feedback kevin...will check it out...cheers

f11

Kevin and Craig, thanks for your input. You're both thinking fan shroud scaping I see.

Kevin, you're right, the pitch of the jangling doesn't seem to vary much. Can you suggest a course of action to take to check if this is indeed my problem? I'm too new to these cars and don't know my way around the engine (yet).

When I lift the engine lid and put my head in there with the car idling, it doesn't sound like a fan or alternator scaping, but I'm no expert and my ears ain't what they used to be .

boze_man, I'll try the low-rpm and out of gear tests to see if I have the same characteristics as you. Maybe we can triangulate (can you do that with only two sources ) a solution between us.

Rod

CraigC

Rod,
You might try a stethoscope to try to pinpoint where the noise is coming from. My car had several noises which made it hard to pinpoint. Part of the noise was the engine fan scraping the fan shroud and the other part was a noise caused by a LWF (I hope). Still not completely sure about the LWF noise. You might try this liknk to find a automotive stethoscope. Harbor Freight sells them for $ 6.
http://da.harborfreight.com/cpisearc...cope&Submit=Go

warmfuzzies

A stethoscope would be my first call, failing that I've used a screwdriver before, long tipped one, just bung teh thick end into your ear, and the tip on what you are listening to, its not exact, and takes practice but it can work.
If you're confident about mecahnical stuff, and your battery is good, you could disconnect the alternator drive belts for a while, and then start it up, no noise means obviuosly you've found your fix....I have rotated mine by hand with the engine off to see if it scrapes....other than that I can't remember at the mo' how I disassembled the cowling/fan housing, as when I put mine back together I misaligned it and heard the scraping noise, hence my comments.

Kevin

f11

Well, to put *some* closure to this thread, I took the car in and asked them to diagnose the damn jangling noise and get rid of it no matter how long it took. I was convinced it was going to turn out to be a timing chain dragging over a guide, or something similarly trivial.

Wrong.

They put it up on a hoist and popped off the right side exhaust manifold where the noise seemed the loudest - and out fell a bunch of ceramic pieces from the heads, one roughly the size of a 50-cent piece. They'd passed through the exhaust valve(s) I guess and got trapped in the manifold, jangling around in there. Same story on the other side. The prevailing opinion is that they never had a chance to get into the cylinder and damage the pistons or cylinder walls.

Not sure yet what the outcome (emotional and financial) of this discovery will be, but the car is laid up for the next 6-8 weeks while the parts are sourced and they reschedule the repairs.

While they're in there (engine still in car, but heads off I think), is there anything else I should be doing? Valve guides?

Heirsh

There are some threads about this happening. if I remember correctly, it does not automatically warrant head replacement.